Theos-Talk Archives (October 1998 Message tt00166)

Oct 29th 1998

Dear Jerry:

I would respectfully disagree with your assessment - if HPB is
carefully reviewed on all she writes one finds that she covers in
outline at least the concepts of the 3 + 3 "upper planes - and
attaches to them those "perfections" which universalize.

After all, if "SPIRIT " pervades everything and is supreme then
our link to THE UNNAMABLE, THE ONE is interior and not exterior.
It is I the unveiling of interior perception - intuition ? - that
is significant.

As to the objective of Nirvana which seems to be described in
terms of negatives and the escape from personal suffering - well,
what about compassion for those who do not see that Way ?  The
VOICE OF THE SILENCE speaks of "Nirvanas gained and lost out of
boundless compassion for the world of deluded mortals."  Should
they (I mean those around us, those who may be seeking for a
release from the senseless jog-trot of pointless living, I say,
should those not be helped (to the best of our ability, and to
the extent that they seek for answers) out of the benevolence we
may acquire by advancing in perception at a more rapid pace ?  We
may see that becoming karma-less is the best way of fitting
ourselves to Nature's ways and methods, but that is almost
completely the opposite of the hedonism one is surrounded with on
all sides every hour in our present world and civilization.

This aspect of learning so that we may practice is so very
important in my mind, and there does not seem to be any other way
than isolating ones' self from others - but, is that necessary ?
is there not such a thing as an inner seclusion - to live in the
world, doing the things of the world, but not being attached to
them ?  I wonder ...

Dallas

> From: Jerry Schueler
> Sent:	Friday, October 30, 1998 5:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: Mind and Memory

>
>I would humbly suggest that, if one is to draw inspiration from
Buddhist
>teachings, as our above correspondents seem to do, there is a
place for
both
>perspectives in Mahayana Buddhism and in Theosophy.
>

Of course there is.


>Jerry S. seems to hold strictly to a "Madhyamika" view, that
really nothing
>positive can be asserted, because it can easily by shown to
lead,
eventually,
>to absurdity.  So emptiness (which is not a position) is the
only thing one
>can truthfully postulate about the world or the self.
>

Yes, I do hold to that view. I adhere to the "Great Perfection"
school of
Tibetan Buddhism, which explains much of my own experiences.


>However, there is another school of Buddhism, one more favored
by HPB,
called
>"Yogacara," where, as Darren states, all may be emptiness, but
there is the
>perception of emptiness.

These two schools are not necesarily at odds. The Great
Perfection school
tries to be inclusive. The view that one perceives emptiness is
true. When
I combined this with HPB's globes and planes model, I found that
both
views can be explained. Emptiness with a perciever is nirvana;
the upper
three planes of our 7-plane system. Emptiness without a perceiver
(non-
duality) is outside the 7-plane system.  The "goal" of most
Buddhists
schools is to enter nirvana, which Great Perfection says is still
maya.
The lower four planes of our solar system comprise samsara. The
upper
three comprise nirvana (roughly). Great Perfection is said to go
farther
than
other schools by including nirvana within maya, and by teaching
that the
real
and ultimate goal lies outside of the 7-plane system altogether.


>  Tibetan and other adherents of Yogacara actually
>assert, in both Scripture and Commentary, that while there is no
real
"self"
>(in the sense of personal ego, eternally existing thing) there
is a *REAL*
>Buddha-nature, waiting to manifest, and (another way of putting
this) a
*REAL*
>luminous essence of mind, compared with "clear light" (See Tulku
Namkhai
>Norbu).  In this school of thought, perception, and "mind" (or
essence of
>mind) is real, permanent, self-existing, etc.
>

Agreed. I see this "essence of mind" as pure consciousness
itself.
The idea of a real buddha-nature is found in all schools of
Buddhism,
and as far as I can tell, it is equivilent to HPB's divine Monad.


>It may be this Yogacara position which HPB would wish to utilize
in
defending
>her presentation of the Monad.
>
>Rich


It is. She deliberately said almost nothing about the three upper
planes.
She only fully described the lower 4.  I think she felt that the
Great
Perfection teaching was too much for folks to grasp during her
time.
This is no longer true because of all the Tibetans now writing
excellent
books about it in English.

Jerry S.