Theos-Talk Archives (August 1998 Message tt00402)

Jerry & I saith thus:
>>NOS replies:
>>I sid ONE TRUE INITIATION. There are many 'spiritual experiences' which the
>>naive think are initiations - and yes one need not die to have a spiritual
>>experience - but what of it?
>>
>
>Guess I'm pretty naive then.

Only in that you don't have the experiential reference point to make a
judgement over the differences in 'initiations' . Most people that have
found their way to theosophy invariably have had some momentus life
experience such as an NDE that helps them understand the basic principal of
unity. If your here then you probably KNOW that this is true. But how do we
explain to common everyday garden variety materialist that is more to this
world than little balls bouncing together?

>>Unless you have died and I don't mean an NDE which is just another form of
>>hallucination (albeit very inisghtful into the true nature of reality) and
>>STOPPED COMPLETELY (laya state) - that is - all forms of change through
>>thought - you will still be embedded in MAYA. All thoughtis Mayavic, all
>>concepts are mayavic.
>>
>
>Guess what. Even after death we are still in Maya. Thoughts are alive
>and well on the mental plane, which is where Devachan lies.

Yes - but liberation is found most easily in the after-death state
according to the Bardo Thodrol. If time didn't pass by itself we would have
to 'push it' - mentally through thought. We can stop thinking - the goal of
meditation - but unless outside stimulus is removed the 'stopped moment'
may hard to find.

>>For those interested in performing self-initiations I suggest reading the
>>Rg Veda very thoroughly first and to understand what is meant by Vriti in
>>Chetna (forgive my spelling if slightly out I have 3 books with different
>>nomenclature). Then acquire some true SOMA. Do not attempt it by yourself
>>though.
>>
>
>Self-initiations do not require a Rg Veda or any other book. I have
>had many myself, but then I am very naive so they probably don't count
>for much.

Jerry your humility is very becoming. But trust me you will know the
difference between an epiphany (with moving thought or expereince) and
union with the laya state. The question is - what disturbance in pure
consciousness causes the mental spiral into  thought-form - cosmic desire?

>
>>But ask yourself, once I know everything and Understand completely (gnosis)
>>what do I wnat then?
>>
>
>
>Then you will want to share it with others.

I'm trying but it's hard.

Darren