Theos-Talk Archives (August 1998 Message tt00406)

Should we not first inquire how a "spiritual experience" can be accurately
defined ?

What in us experiences such an event ?

What would the outstanding characteristics of a "spiritual experience be ?

Are there degrees of "spiritual experience ?"  Has anyone made a catalog of
these to which we might refer ?

Is there some difference between "Spiritual" and "psychic" experiences ?
How would we define it ?

Does Theosophy have anything to say on this subject ?  Are there any
references that can be advanced to assist students determine what is meant ?

It is, to my mind, the same with "altered states."  What are they, who
perceives them, how is it that we experience them, or, do we only have a
memory of them in retrospect, and are not necessarily "awake" when they
actually happen ?

I think if we are going to resolve any of these matters we ought to at least
have a structure on which we may place such information as may be
contributed as answers.

Best wishes,
Dallas

> Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 7:22 PM
> From: "Darren Porter" <dport@ozemail.com.au>
> Subject: Re: Let the true initiates speak

>Jerry & I saith thus:
>>>NOS replies:
>>>I sid ONE TRUE INITIATION. There are many 'spiritual experiences' which
the
>>>naive think are initiations - and yes one need not die to have a
spiritual
>>>experience - but what of it?
>>>
>>
>>Guess I'm pretty naive then.
>
>Only in that you don't have the experiential reference point to make a
>judgement over the differences in 'initiations' . Most people that have
>found their way to theosophy invariably have had some momentus life
>experience such as an NDE that helps them understand the basic principal of
>unity. If your here then you probably KNOW that this is true. But how do we
>explain to common everyday garden variety materialist that is more to this
>world than little balls bouncing together?
>
>>>Unless you have died and I don't mean an NDE which is just another form
of
>>>hallucination (albeit very inisghtful into the true nature of reality)
and
>>>STOPPED COMPLETELY (laya state) - that is - all forms of change through
>>>thought - you will still be embedded in MAYA. All thoughtis Mayavic, all
>>>concepts are mayavic.
>>>
>>
>>Guess what. Even after death we are still in Maya. Thoughts are alive
>>and well on the mental plane, which is where Devachan lies.
>
>Yes - but liberation is found most easily in the after-death state
>according to the Bardo Thodrol. If time didn't pass by itself we would have
>to 'push it' - mentally through thought. We can stop thinking - the goal of
>meditation - but unless outside stimulus is removed the 'stopped moment'
>may hard to find.
>
>>>For those interested in performing self-initiations I suggest reading the
>>>Rg Veda very thoroughly first and to understand what is meant by Vriti in
>>>Chetna (forgive my spelling if slightly out I have 3 books with different
>>>nomenclature). Then acquire some true SOMA. Do not attempt it by yourself
>>>though.
>>>
>>
>>Self-initiations do not require a Rg Veda or any other book. I have
>>had many myself, but then I am very naive so they probably don't count
>>for much.
>
>Jerry your humility is very becoming. But trust me you will know the
>difference between an epiphany (with moving thought or expereince) and
>union with the laya state. The question is - what disturbance in pure
>consciousness causes the mental spiral into  thought-form - cosmic desire?
>
>>
>>>But ask yourself, once I know everything and Understand completely
(gnosis)
>>>what do I wnat then?
>>>
>>
>>
>>Then you will want to share it with others.
>
>I'm trying but it's hard.
>
>Darren
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