Theos-Talk Archives (August 1998 Message tt00080)

You have wonderfully summarized the natural conditions that exist.

But many formal schools which are supposed to lead one towards spiritual
develpment traditionally treated sex as a no-no for spiritual unfoldment and
has been the accepted norm for centuries and many in theosophical circles
still believe it so. I have no problem in any one personally believing
anything including tooth fairy.

In any case, I will still try to post very succinct summary on the issue of
celibacy, when much fuss was made on the question of physical relationship
Krishnamurti had with the wife of his business manager (manager himself was
declared as an initiate of the Great Mysteries during Besant/Leadbeater days
before Krishnamurti disbanded the Order of the Star of the East). The
relationship was of course consensual between two adults.

mkr
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At 04:36 PM 8/9/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Doss wrote:
>
>>The traditional view is that celibacy is essential for spiritual progress
>>and enlightenment. There is the contra view of Krishnaji which questions
>>this. I will try to post Krishnaji's view on this which may be very relevant.
>
>I am often confused on why one would choose to incarnate as a "human" and
>then spend all one's time trying to avoid being a "human."  Perhaps it is
>because so many humans think being a human is a "bad" thing and have
>assigned so many terrible attributes to what encompasses being a human.
>
>Sex between two consenting adults - sex that is loving, communicative, and
>mutually fulfilling is, in itself, an intercourse with the Divine.  It
>helps one "grow," learn to share, learn to be attentive to the needs of
>others.  Sex is an excellent instructor. . .why throw out this teacher?
>
>To declare celibacy "good" is to declare sex "bad."  Human psychology,
>being what it is, is often immediately drawn to what is "forbidden."  There
>are examples galore of "holy folk" eventually "succumbing" to their sexual
>drive - and then we have the sickening scenes of prostrating, guilt-ridden,
>angry people attempting to deal with their "sin."  Since humans are born
>with hormones that encourage the sexual drive, it seems sex is only
>natural; the trick is learning how to develop the sexual drive so it serves
>only one's (and other's) well-being, not something to be ignored or avoided.
>
>It appears to me that those who have "mastered" their sexuality don't spend
>much time talking about it; much less going on about how it hinders
>spirituality.  Those who have not dealt with their sexuality probably spend
>a great deal of time jumping up from sessions of meditation heading for
>buckets of ice in which to plunge their erect penis into - hardly a Divine
>scenario.  Men, due to the big "T" hormone, appear to have a more difficult
>time with sexuality than women do. . .which is not a slam toward men, just
>a recognition of biological differences.
>
>The advocation of celibacy is also very detrimental for women - first, it
>strips them of the closeness they want from the men in their lives, and
>secondly, one way men deal with pledges of celibacy is to eliminate women
>from everything altogether.  Men fear the "temptation" women bring and
>thus, forbade them from social, spiritual, and mental pursuits - the
>presence of women force men to deal with issues they would rather not deal
>with.  And, oddly, people think that if they are never "tempted" they have
>"conquered" the problem.  Wrong-O.  (I have focused this post from the
>perspective of heterosexuals simply for ease of writing, but homosexuality
>is also factored in and applies).
>
>Due to historical interpretation through rather prudish eyes, I fear that
>much of what is written about celibacy is in gross error.  There is also a
>great mistrust among the "holy folk" of "regular folk" - they worry that if
>the go-ahead is given to people regarding sex, people will be fornicating
>in the stores, the malls, the theatres, the parks, on the tops of the
>highest mountains.  Before anyone can "lead or instruct" another in the art
>of Compassion, one must recognize what it means to be a human. . .and that
>means encouraging what is good in being a human.
>
>Sex, for mutual pleasure, is good - and a sexually fulfilled person is
>freed from the bondages of the struggles of fighting what is, essentially,
>a human need.  This freedom opens the mind to other pursuits, and
>eventually, it may happen that the need for sex disappears altogether.
>
>But until then, believing that celibacy will lead one to "enlightenment" is
>asking for trouble, for that simple frustration - lack of really cool sex -
>will cause one to reincarnate if only to provide proper closure and
>understanding of an important part of being human.
>
>Bottom line:  Don't die sexually frustrated.
>
>She has spoken.
>
>
>Kym
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