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Re: ICQ Theosophy Group

Jun 11, 1998 03:38 PM
by Dallas TenBroeck

June 11th 1998

Dear Thoa O:

Glad to hear from you.

I can't recall a direct statement that HPB made her self to the
effect that she would "return."  ( Although many great Teachers
in the past are said to have told their disciples that they
would. )

Mr. Judge in one of his articles  THE CLOSING CYCLE  (IRISH
THEOSOPHIST, January 1895) says:  :"H.P.Blavatsky has clearly
pointed out in the KEY, in her conclusion, that the plan is to
keep the T S alive as an active free, unsectarian body during all
the time of waiting for the next great messenger, who will be
herself beyond question...And in all this time of waiting the
Master, "that great Initiate, whose single will upholds the
entire movement," will have his mighty hand spread out wide
behind the Society."  [ ULT Ed. Judge Articles Vol. 2, p. 153 ]

You speak of, as though you felt some of the "forces" that work
to inspire -- as far as I can see they are three-fold.  There is
the great, general urge to perfection which brings the whole
Evolutionary scheme of a Universal scale into being.  There is
the special care and force towards improvement of the human race
that the Masters of Wisdom (to which the Adepts behind HPB
belong) -- a force that urges all to brotherhood among all
humans.  Then, third, there is the individual power of a
personage such as HPB -- who calling on the Inner Ray of the
Atman, causes her personality to work incessantly for a movement
such as the Theosophical.  We have these three great ideas as our
inspiration.  They urge us to work for brotherhood and the
enlightenment of mankind.  That is as I see it.

Without Karma, as the general law of compensation and fairness,
without Reincarnation as the process whereby all souls improve by
self-effort, and, without the power of free-choice, of dedicating
ourselves to improvement by learning the secret laws of life and
living, and by service of others, we would have no real hope or
see any value to living.

Everyone must be grateful to others who have helped them advance,
and it is only right to state that.  I find that looking back
over my life I have had many inspirers:  Krishna ( Bhagavad
Gita),  Buddha ( The Dhammapada),  Lao-Tse (the Tao-te-Ching),
Jesus (the Sermon on the Mount), Plato (many of his mind opening
dialogs),  and now especially near to me are HPB's writings and
those of Judge.

I am also familiar with some of A. Besant's writings,
Krishnamurit's and de Puruker.  But I prefer going back to the
original sources from which they acquired their information --
without disrespect to any of them, I find that they "filtered" --
and conclude that anything I write must also be a kind of
"filter" to my reader.  So to be fair, I mention that and suggest
going to those sources that are still unfiltered to which we all
owe respect.  I mean HPB and Judge.  We have their original
writings.  All the other books have either been translated,
modified, or are the result of a student's concepts of meaning.

Thanks for your views on ICQ and the ethics of answering, etc...
I agree.

The Gita is something you ought to read carefully at least once.
Judge's rendition is the one that I am most familiar with, but
having lived in India there are hundreds of translations and
thousands of "commentaries" -- again I try to get as close as I
can to the "original."

Since you are familiar with the Tao-te-Ching you will have the
same sense of trust, even if the "paradoxes" are difficult to
understand.  I believe that they are deliberate, and Lao-tse
tried to get the readers to go under the surface meaning to the
core of things -- to get under the "eye" doctrine and secure a
grasp of the "heart" doctrine there -- the real and the

Best wishes as always,        Dal.

> Date: Thursday, June 11, 1998 11:34 AM
> From: "Thoa Thi-Kim Tran" <>
> Subject: ICQ Theosophy Group

>Dear Dallas:
>>June 11th  --  Dear Thoa O  --  Whatever gave you the idea that
>>HPB had to return ?
>Wasn't it predicted somewhere that HPB would come back?  Didn't
she say so
>herself?  I don't recall where I got it.  True or false, I was
only joking.
>I think it takes the collective to pull everything together, not
just HPB.
>>One think I got out of Theosophy is the idea
>>that reincarnation is a reasonable fact.  Second, that an Adept
>>like HPB does not "die" and vanish.  Presumable one might
>>that She (if not incarnate and working hard now) is working as
>>Nirmanakaya, and may be "influencing" many that are true
>>of hers.
>>It's just an idea, and she is probably no further away than the
>>reach of our thought directed to her memory and work.
>>What do you say ?
>I think that the forces that inspire us to different levels of
>has always been, and always will be.  It influenced HPB, and it
>all of us.  If we have the energy and if we know how to listen,
we can
>manifest it.  It's only our own doubts, insecurity or laziness
>prevents us from staying in contact with that force.  For
example, I've
>often done things that I thought were beyond my ability.
Unfortunately, I
>lack the focus and assertiveness to maintain those abilities.
Or to be
>more exact, the energy to maintain that focus and overcome my
daily doubt
>is so great, that I quit and move on to something else, to the
confusion of
>teachers who saw something special in me.  I'm still working on
>psychological glitch.
>I saw on PrimeTime last night about a blond hair, blue eyed
gentile woman
>who helped saved some Jewish people during the Nazi era, despite
the danger
>to herself.  She was only 18 years old when she witnessed awful
>She prayed to God for answers as to what she could do.  The
answer came to
>her.  The answer was that she has a Will to do good or bad.  She
chose to
>do good.  At the end of the program, when she was asked how was
she able to
>go through some difficult moments to help these people, she
said, "You have
>to listen to your heart instead of your head.  When you listen
to your
>head, it will tell you to not do this because it's too
dangerous.  When you
>listen to your heart, you will do what you need to do." (Some
>Her "heart", to me, is that instinct that reaches to the divine
>>As to the ICQ -- while it is a means of quick communication
>>between fellow "members" -- what does it offer otherwise ?  As
>>Darren posts there are at least 5 who have message numbers.
>>what do we do that we aren't already doing ?  I admit that I
>>not had the time yet to fully investigate.
>>Seems that some are experiencing long time delays -- I am not.
>The ICQ could be good for the question and answer format.  The
question one
>asks of another will have to be answered, since it is a direct
chat.  Once
>you commit to chat with a person, it would be rude not to
respond to a
>question.  With e-mail, you can ignore a question or a post.
However, I
>feel that the e-mail is a much better format for insightful
posts.  People
>have the silence and privacy to compose what means most to them
before they
>send it out. Dialectism with others is good, but so is
dialectism with
>yourself.  Also, people can mull over other's questions for a
period of
>time before responding.
>>As to longing for HPB's return (to return to your comment)
>>shall we do to hasten it?  If she is here among us, how will we
>>recognize her presence ?
>Again, it is not necessary for HPB to return.  What is necessary
is that we
>learn to listen to our intuitive and overcome our doubts or
>>What is the nature of an interest in
>>Theosophy :  I mean on us,
>I'm guessing as students of theosophy, we are seeking for
answers, for
>inner change, and for peace.
>>and 2nd, what can be do for others ?
>Whatever we see that we can lend a hand to in our present
environment.  As
>far as helping others in their spiritual search, that is up to
them.  All
>one can do is have the information available, without rubbing
>nose in it.  Then again, we can be creative by donating a bunch
>theosophy books to the library, attach a spring to the bottom of
a book so
>that it leaps off the shelf whenever somebody walks by.  Sort of
a "read
>me" signal.  :o) (Can't help myself, gotta joke)
>>BTW have you ever read the Bhagavad Gita ?  I bet you have.  I
>>have been re=reading it the last week.  Made some notes and
>>abstracts -- very interesting.  If interested, I can share.
>Yes, I have.  However, I'm in the middle of finding a good
>of it.  There's a Judge analysis that is available on the web,
but that I
>haven't gotten around to reading.  Why is it that I haven't read
any of
>Judge's work, although they're available?  It's not that I read
them and
>didn't like them.  I just never read them.  You said that HPB is
>teacher.  I consider G. de Purucker mine because it is through
his writings
>that my interest in Theosophy grew.  Now I am focusing on HPB,
but my
>heart's still with GdeP.
>>Are you familiar with Lao-Tse's Tao-te-Ching ?  Now that is a
>>real mind-twister to deal with, and yet, in some ways it is
>>similar to the B. Gita ( yes I was also working on that too ).
>Very familiar.  I usually take Lao-Tse's writing as releasing of
>desire and conflict.  I don't take his writing to mean releasing
of daily
>responsibility and escaping.  Of course, that's also a
reflection of me.  I
>find Sufi writings to be interesting, also.
>>Interested ?
>I would be interested in your interpretation.  However,
currently, I'm
>afraid I won't have the time to return a long analysis.  If you
want one,
>you'll have to wait for a long time, like Eiichi in my Mondrian
posts.  I
>do read all the posts.
>>Best wishes,    Dallas
>You, too, Dallas.  And good health, too!
>Thoa :o)

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