Theos-Talk Archives (May 1998 Message tt00044)

May 2nd 1998

Govert:   Thanks for comments

Some answers in CAPS below        Dal.

> From: "Govert Schuller <schuller@prodigy.net>
> Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: Criteria for continuity

>Dear Dallas,
>
>Thanks for your response. Have some comments though:
>
>
>>The test of THEOSOPHY is not in who presents it -- a name or a
>>presence -- but in the actual PHILOSOPHY.
>>
>>If that is impersonal and universal, then it is in line with
>>Theosophy.
>
>No problem with that
>
>
>>Wisdom and knowledge are no one's property.   If it is being
>>given away, then one of the criteria is met.  No one can lay
>>claim to Theosophy and charge a fee of any kind.  (Whether in
>>money or in authority.)
>
>Isn't every group in the theosopical tradition charging
something for what
>they organize and publish?


================================================
    [ Dallas answers ]

ULT        ==        MAKES NO CHARGES WHATSOEVER.

            READ ITS DECLARATION  -- SOLE BASIS FOR ASSOCIATION

            NO QUESTIONS ASKED  ==  PARTICIPATE IF YOU WANT TO.

            HAS DONE THIS SINCE IT STARTE IN 1909  == GOING
STRONG

==================================================

>
>>No one can claim that they have the one and sole pass-key to
>>Wisdom,
>
>Have never met or read someone doing that except for some
Christian
>Fundamentalists.
>
> and that following their methods or treating them as an
>>oracle will take them to ...whatever their hearts desire.  That
>>is the start of a creed.
>
>There are many methods to get what you want and these are
offered in almost
>any esoteric tradition. Only difference will be the ethical side
of the
>picture, i.e. what are your ends and how much selflessness,
sacrifice and
>patience is required to make something come true.
>
==================================================
        [ Dallas answers ]

EXACTLY  ==  IN OUR PROGRESS WE INEVITABLY EXERCISE THE FREEDOM
TO CHOOSE FOR OURSELVES -- EVEN A REFUSAL TO CHOOSE IS A CHOICE

ETHICAL SIDE (as I understand it) IS BALANCE BETWEEN SELF OF ALL
AND PERSONAL ISOLATED, SELFISH self OF THIS INCARNATION ONLY.

IF WE CAN TAKE THE POSITION OF BEING AN IMMORTAL, BUCH OF THE
FEAR OF TIME AND DELAY VANISHES -- WE HAVE ROOM FOR EXPANSION AND
RECOGNIZE THAT LEARNING IS ALWAYS ONE DAY AT A TIME.  SO WHY BE
IMPATIENT ?

===================================================

>If you mean with 'oracle' a messenger of the Masters, well, then
you have to
>treat such a person as such a defined oracle. And she or he
might give you
>advise with attaining certain goals.
>
======================================================
    [ Dallas answers ]


NO ORACLES PLEASE -- ONLY GOOD SOLID COMMON SENSE.

BUT ONE HAS TO ESTABLISH A SECURE, A PERMANENT BASIS.  IF ONE
STARTS OFF ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT OUR PRESENT PERSONALITY WITH
ALL ITS FOIBLES AND INSECURITIES IS THE REAL MAN, THEN WE ARE IN
TROUBLE.  THAT HAS TO BE FIRST DECIDED ON.  WHERE IS THAT WISDOM
?  WHAT IS AVAILABLE THAT IS THE MOST INCLUSIVE, AND DEMANDS THE
LEAST "BELIEF" ?

========================================
>>The true teacher sets all his pupils
>>loose -- out on their own.  Seek and find.  Is his sole
>>injunction.
>
>I think there is more to a teacher than that. A true teacher
teaches first
>and then might say 'go ahead and look for yourself if you can
verify it or
>agree with it and then use it for your own and other people's
spiritual
>evolution.'
>
==============================================

YOUR ARE VERY CORRECT.  BUT HOW DOES ONE TEST A TEACHER WHEN ONE
HAS A ROSTER TO CHOOSE FROM ?  WHAT QUALITIES DO YOU EXPECT IN A
TEACHER ?

WHAT HAVE YOU TO OFFER TO THE TEACHER, SO THAT HE MAY ACCEPT YOU
?

I SAY:  IF ANY "TEACHER" MAKES A MONETARY CHARGE, OR DEMANDS
SUBMISSION -- BEWARE. TRUE WISDOM IS ALWAYS FREE.
SELF-DISCIPLINE IS PART OF THE LEARNING -- I MEAN THE LOWER SELF.

IF ONE TAKES THE POSITION THAT INTERIORLY THERE RESIDES THE
"HIGHER SELF" THEN IT, BEING IMMORTAL AND UNIVERSAL (a RAY --
Monad --  of and from the ONE SPIRIT) -- IT RECOGNIZES A TRUE
TEACHER RIGHT AWAY, AND KNOWS WHEN ASSISTANCE IS EARNED BY THE
"PUPIL."  -- and this is not sentiment or emotional gush.  IT IS
A HARD AND PROVABLE FACT.

OUR ONLY "DETACHABLE" (because it dan be uninvolved -- as an
"Observer")  AND INVULNERABLE TOOL IS OUR MIND  (no one outside
can assail it, but we ourselves from the point of view of the
emotinal or passionate personality, can fasten on to its lower
powers, and employ them by enslavement -- this is so often done,
that we don't know the difference, until we go throug the simple
process of self-evaluation, and self-analysis -- not to be done
by any one "outside" but by one's own CONSCIENCE.)  HOWEVER THE
MIND CAN BE SWAYED BY HOPES, FEARS, EMOTIONS, LIKES AND DISLIKES
(as I just said, the "Lower Mind (KAMA-MANADS) is separate to
that extent from the "Higher Mind" (BUDDHI-MANAS).        The
"self-analysis" I write about is conducted by the Buddhi-Manas
and the Kama-Manas is the one which is being analysed.  It is not
an easy or a pleasant process -- No "excuses" accepted.

THE FIRST TEACHING, THEN (as found in Patanjali's "Yoga
Aphorisms" -- try and get ahold of W.Q.Judge's version, please )
IS TO STEADY THE MIND AND TO KNOW OUR MIND COMPLETELY.  WHEN THE
PUPIL HAS DONE THIS SUCCESSFULLY, HIS REAL "LEARNING" CAN SAFELY
PROCEED, FOR HE HAS ALSO BECOME A MASTER OF HIS OWN EMOTIONS AND
PERSONALITY.  I do not know how else to put this, or in milder
tones, perhaps.  I am strong on this, because with due defernece
to you, and with a realization that I am only a very limited
student of this great philosophy ( Theosophy ), one has to try to
take away from any statement the force of one's personal
opinions, or the impress of a "line" which he thinks is the best
for his progress.

Each one of us has his own "magic" -- in the sense of the
interior Wisdom.  None of us are ever any superior to any one
else -- hence the great freedom in real MAGIC.  False magic
attempts to subjugate individual freedom by imposing rituals
ceremonies, mantrams, and an  "outside teacher," who is to be
obeyed "without question and immediately" and all kinds of other
slavish impositions -- which are only the debasement of the real
man to some figment of personal pride and ambition -- whether of
the pupil or of the supposed "outside teacher."

I offer these ideas a a kind of "touchstone" which might serve in
making an examination of such matters.

I hope this is helpful  Govert.   Best wishes to you,
Dal.
===============================================