Theos-Talk Archives (April 1998 Message tt00273)

Kazimir:
>Why you think joy helps? Imagine the hour (day, ..., yuga) of the greatest
>joy followed with the same time of the greatest pain. Simplified samsara,
>same point.

Agree. Ultimately, samsara and nirvana are the same.

>The deepest cause is will for life. Will for life => life => pain. If one
>accept it, there is no good way for avoid the consequence on any form of
>life. Why avoid it?

And Will for life => life => pain + joy

Same difference. This is embracing the Kali, embracing the duality. By
transforming pain into love, you can experience joy. Life is pain and joy.
Pain and joy ends with life itself. I understand what you're getting at
now, Kazimir, pain=joy, samsara=nirvana. However, a correllary to the
statement "life is all pain" is that life is all joy.

>>Even the Shakyamuni Buddhi attained nirvana while he had earthly life,
>>as he sat underneath the bodhi tree.
>
>It was maybe the discovery of the end of life, obviously not an end itself.

There are two methods of liberation. One is liberation via full
realization while in earthly life. The other is full extinction of life.
The first one is not an end in itself.

Thoa :o)