Theos-Talk Archives (April 1998 Message tt00272)

Bjorn:
>K has a problem with the Guru thing. He is acting as a Guru to thousands of
>people, yet denying the value or need for the Guru. A Guru is a teacher
>who have
>attained levels of realization that the students yet have not attained. He/she
>can help the student find the truth within, by being an example, by providing
>assistance in maintaining the right vibration; a vibration that is compatible
>with the real self. The real self of the teacher is one with the real self of
>the student. The teacher can help by pointing the student in the right
>direction. Yes the student has to do the work himself and cannot use the
>Guru as
>a replacement for his real self, but having the Guru can nevertheless be of
>enormous help in avoiding pitfalls and getting there faster.

I don't deny the importance of having someone who can guide you, or who can
make you do things that you would never have attempted in the first place.
This is good if you have a teacher who is truly concerned with your welfare
and growth. I've attempted things that I would normally be afraid to do
only because a teacher told me to do it, told me that it can be done, told
me how to do it, and told me that it will not harm me.

However, look at the environment that K was in when he made the "Truth is a
Pathless Land" statement. The pervasive idea was that in order for
spiritual growth to occur, you have to have a teacher-chela relationship.
There was no alternative method. It was accepted that the student give the
power to the teacher. I'm sure that due to such an environment, there were
probably a lot of abuse of power going on. K was there to say, stop, think
about this, this does not have to be, you can believe in yourself, you
don't have to give your power to somebody else and the power can be all
yours.

As far as K also being a Guru, you cannot avoid learning from teachers,
whether it be your parents, your school teacher, books, or spiritual
teachers. However, a teacher will only give you information, encouragement
and guidance for growth. A Guru has a much stronger hold. From what I've
heard of some Guru-Chela relationship, it requires a total devotion to the
Guru, to the point where the Chela will follow the Guru wherever the Guru
goes, and unquestionably follows the advice of the Guru. Guru-ship has a
separation factor. The followers are all in one narrow circle with the
Guru as the center. With that, self-generated experiences and ideas can
occur, whether it is true or not. Following a Guru does not necessarily
help you get rid of your lower ego factor. Guruship also drew narcissitic
people intent on "spiritualizing" themselves.

Since my study focus has been on concepts and not history, I'm not sure
about K's relationship to his devotees. I wonder whether he was waited on
hand and foot by devotees as Llhem said. If that was so, then he was
contradicting his philosophy of no Guru-ship.

>He is lacking the humility and devotion necessary for ultimate surrender of the
>lower impermanent aspects of personality - his freedom does not transcend the
>intellect, but only reaches the most subtle levels thereof. I admit that I
>cannot rove this statement, it is the result of my experiments with his "path"
>and other personal experience.
>
>If you manage to understand K you will reach high levels of consciousness, but
>not freedom.

I cannot dispute your personal experiences with K's philosophy. Each
person has to find what is best for him/her. If K's philosophy did not
work for you, then it was best to find something else. For some others,
however, it was highly fulfilling, or else he would not have followers.

>The question is: Self-sufficient based on what self? I think K's teachings of
>self-sufficiency appeals to the pride of the lower ego and therefor can be
>quite
>appealing.

The self-sufficiency part may be appealing to the lower ego, but it is also
a defensive measure against any claim of power of others over the self.
This is necessary for everyday living, just as is economic
self-sufficiency, etc. That is not all he taught, though. He also taught
awareness, awareness that results in responsibility to each other. This
goes beyond the pride of the "I" of the lower ego. K stressed spiritual
discipline via meditation and service. This way shatters any illusion. It
is a way of taking responsibility for your own being, for every single
moment that you are alive and breathing.

>With this I will not argue. You may not have the weaknesses that K had and may
>very well be doing better than he did!

You know that HPB was supposed to come back sometime about now.
Well...ahem...;o)
Sorry, Dallas.

Thoa :o)