Theos-Talk Archives (April 1998 Message tt00170)

Responding to Jerry Hejka-Ekins on the following:

1) Masters taking over HPB’s vocal chords.

2) Corporeality of the Masters.

3) Compatibility of different theosophies.

1) Masters taking over HPB’s vocal chords.

Jerry Hejka-Ekins wrote:

“I understand Barborka's use of the word Tulku in application to HPB, but
even here, I have seen nothing in HPB's writings, Olcott's observations, or
the Mahatma letters that suggests that they ever took over her vocal cords.
Can you give an instance where such a thing happened?”

No. I thought I had read in one of the postings that HPB was sometimes used
by the Masters as a conscious medium in the way that they would be speaking
through her. Whether to establish if she ever was ‘overshadowed’ or not in
this way is less a point than the possibility of this phenomenon itself.
Cyril Scott and Leadbeater witness about this. Some theosophists in the 20s
discussed about K being overshadowed or not. I have been present at
dictations given by different Masters through Mrs. Prophet with the effect
that I am thoroughly convinced of the possibility of this phenomenon and of
the authenticity of Prophet’s ‘channeling.’

I vividly remember the first time it really struck me that Prophet was
genuine. This was during a Summit Lighthouse conference in Lisbon,
Portugal. The first dictations had some impact on me, but because of the
veil in my consciousness created by all kinds of expectations and images the
experience became somewhat blurred. During the third dictation I was not
present in the theater where the dictation took place, but I was in the hall
as an ‘outside usher’ and was able to hear the message. The program had
indicated that the Ascended Master Jesus would address us. Initially I was
not giving much attention and was more enjoying the peace and quiet of the
empty but sun-lit hallway. In this state of mind, without expectations and a
minimum of images going through my head, I suddenly tuned into the meaning
of the words spoken. What I heard was so deep, so wise, so enveloping and
loving that my mind and soul were immediately transported to a higher realm
of consciousness. My senses still informed me that I was where I was, but my
awareness was of the level of divine wisdom and I realized I was listening
to Jesus actually speaking. It was not Mrs. Prophet, though it was her
voice, but it was the sweet and stern Adept of Galilee. I would deny myself
if I would deny my conviction that this was genuine. That I had a personal
and most intimate experience of listening to a Master taking over the vocal
cords of a physical human being.

2) Corporeality of the Masters.

I quoted HPB in the following way:

“Both Masters [M. and K.H.] took their fifth initiation, the Ascension, at
the close of the last century, thereby becoming incorporeal Ascended
Masters. And as Blavatsky has written--referring to other saints, that,
when “unburthened of their terrestrial tabernacles, their freed souls,
henceforth united forever with their spirits, rejoin the whole shining host,
which is bound together in one spiritual solidarity of thought and deed, and
called the ‘anointed,’ ”--the same glad tidings could be told, not only
about these two illustrious Masters, but also about many other brave souls
who followed them. [H.P. Blavatsky, Isis Unveiled (Pasadena CA:
Theosophical University Press, 1976), II, p. 159]”

Jerry Hejka-Ekins wrote:

“Since ( as you suggest here) the I AM doctrines teach that the Masters
Ascended at the turn of the century, they are in a very different state than
what HPB experienced concerning them. Therefore, I can understand that given
their own contexts, the Ballards would then become "channelers" of the
Masters, where HPB worked with them as physical people. On the other hand,
how the above quote from ISIS helps your (their) case escapes me. At best
its reading is
ambiguous.”

For me the argument of the whole paragraph is rather unclear. Nevertheless
the paragraph contains some statements which are by themselves quite clear.
I thought the quote I used belongs to that category. I used it to indicate
that HPB herself writes about advanced souls who have permanently united
with their spirit and have no earthly bodies anymore. This idea comes very
close to the idea of the Ascension as put forward by Ballard and Prophet.
It even comes so close that I feel comfortable to say that what HPB calls
the “anointed” Prophet would call it the “ascended.”

3) Compatibility of different theosophies.

I wrote: "my personal experience is that my understanding of the Secret
Doctrine has considerably deepened since I have read many of the works
coming through the Ballards and Prophet. And other way around."

Jerry Hejka-Ekins wrote

“I'm sure it has. However, the deepening would depend upon the extent to
which the two systems are in philosophical agreement. Conversely, the extent
to which they are not in agreement, would lead to misunderstandings and
confusions between the two systems…. . A better approach would be to first
gain a mastery of Blavatsky's writings without comparing them to later
theosophies. Then, use those writings as a test to determine the
compatibility of the later theosophies to Blavatsky's.”

That would be fine if one had already chosen HPB as the most or more
reliable source. I am not convinced she is. This leaves me in the position
to juggle with mainly the ‘theosophies’ of Blavatsky, Leadbeater, Ballard
and Prophet. When I find discrepancies I can do the following: a) suspend
judgement, b) try to explain the difference by studying deeper, c) make a
choice and pick that version which harmonizes best with my own
understanding, d) choose one theosophy as the standard or e) go through a
paradigm shift and perceive all these theosophies as the best opium for
intellectualsand get high on all of them. Mostly I combine a, b and c. For
example in my paper about
Krishnamurti (Krishnamurti and the World Teacher Project) I have tried to
present academically as many different theosophical perceptions of K as I
could find. Although I had come already to a certain conclusion about K,
getting involved in consistent and compelling alternative perceptions forced
me sometimes to suspend judgement. It also was a big puzzle, which solution
only could come nearer by studying more and more. In the end the whole
process had deepened my personal convictions which I later wrote down in my
two pamphlets about K and the Masters.

Thanks for challenging me

Govert