Theos-Talk Archives (April 1998 Message tt00059)

Visanu Sirichote wrote:

In case of HPB transmitting messages from the two Masters
to Sinnett that comprised most of the ML we can see from the subsequent
correspondence with the Masters that it was almost 100% accurate. As to
other transmitted knowledge, Masters read the published works of HPB such as
ISIS and articles in The Theosophist besides their constant telepathic
contact with her. They always have detailed information of the situation,
any inaccuracy will receive immediately feedback. When HPB stated her own
opinions and beliefs she simply said so with no confusion with the
transmitted message.

[When Prophet prepares the received dictations for publication as 'Pearls of
Wisdom' she does the editing with the Master who had dictated. There is also
a clearly understood difference between the dictations and her own
lectures.]

Leadbeater should not be labelled as a messenger, his teaching was a result
of his own clairvoyant. The messages he transmitted from his Master to
others were scarce and mostly personal matter.

[Agree]

I wrote:

>My personal experience is that my
>understanding of the Secret Doctrine has considerably deepened since I have
>read many of the works coming through Ballard and Prophet. And other way
>around.

This may happen because many of Ballard and Prophet materials were
taken from theosophical sources.

[You probably refer to written sources, while it is also possible that, as I
believe, all of them receive their material from the Masters themselves, who
all have access to and are trained in the Wisdom-Religion, which will
explain the similarity of their philosophies.]

>Another way to establish authenticity might be to sense the vibrations and
>transformative effects caused by openly interacting with these different
>teachings. This of course is highly subjective and has to be applied with
>care. Personally I could have rejected the SD because it gave me initially
a
>headache and I could have rejected Prophet, because in the beginning I
found
>their writings quite incomprehensible and confusing.

That was my feeling too.

[Meanwhile they have become quite clear to me]

>For example it was
>mentioned that the Masters used HPB's body sometimes to convey a message to
>someone by taking over her vocal cords. This same technique the Masters use
>in giving dictations, where They overshadow Their messenger and use his or
>her vocal cords . The difference being that dictations are public events
and
>require some preparation beforehand.

There are many techniques that the Masters use in giving dictations. The
messenger may has the ability of clairaudience or clairvoyance and simply
repeats the messages, the Masters may impress sentences on the messenger
brain or take complete control of his body, in the last instance of deep
trance the consciousness of the messenger is withdrawn and on returning the
memory is obliterated unless he can bridge physical memory with higher one.

[Prophet says that for a dictation she has to raise her consciousness to the
level of Manas and that the Master will meet her at that level and then will
take over. Meanwhile she stays conscious and observes the dictation more or
less as a spectator, which does not mean that she goes out of her body]

In direct voice circles material is drawn from the mucous membranes of the
medium's throat and nasal organs and used to create an etherealised larynx
and apparatus of speech. This method has never been used with HPB.

[I'll accept that]

>"Both Masters [M. and K.H.] took their fifth initiation, the Ascension, at
>the close of the last century, thereby becoming incorporeal Ascended
>Masters.

How can an incorporeal Master write a letter to Annie Besant in 1900 and
signed
with KH? How can an incorporeal Master talk with Katherine Tingley in
Darjeeling in 1896 and again in Egypt in 1903.

[They can work through a temporary formed physical body or through a chela
still in incarnation. According to Prophet Saint Germain ascended in 1684,
his last life being Francis Bacon, and came back as the Comte de Saint
Germain. Either he materialized a body or incarnated into the family of
Racockzy. CWL strolled with him in Rome and K saw him in Paris.]

> For practical purposes the difference
>between an Unascended Master and an Ascended one is not very great. Both
can
>work in the physical as well as in the spiritual realm and both have a wide
>array of occult powers at their command to guide Their pupils and help
>mankind. The difference is that an Unascended Master has its base of
>operations in a physical body and an Ascended Master in a spiritual.

The concept of Ascended Master seems similar to Nirmanakaya, in that case
the Adept has to retain and function in etheric body (Linga-Sarira) and not
in a spiritual.

[Etheric body would indeed be a more accurate term. I used 'spiritual' only
to indicate it was not physical.]

HPB wrote about an Adept who during his lifetime reaches the
supreme state of holiness: "At death his apparitional or astral body
becomes as solid and tangible as was the late body, and is transformed into
the real man….by consolidating his astral body into physical appearance, he
can re-assume the self-same personality."

[Would this apply to every Adept?]

According to Mark and Elizabeth Prophet: "Saint Germain said that his
salvation, his ascension whereby he became an Ascended Master, was the
result of two million right decisions that he made." (The Lost Teachings of
Jesus, p. 138). This peculiar method seems to confuse cause with effect.

[HPB: "A Jivanmukta, who may have passed through numberless incarnations and
may have accumulated merit in them, certainly does not become a Nirvani
because of that merit, but only because of the Karma generated by it, which
leads and guides him in the direction of the Guru who will initiate him into
the mystery of Nirvana and who alone can help him reach his abode.”

Apparently what Prophet was saying is that all those right decisions by
Saint Germain added up to enough merit to meet his Guru and go through the
initiation of the Ascension.]

When Elizabeth proclaimed Mark Prophet Ascended Master Lanello sometimes
after his death from a stroke in 1973, the questions naturally arise. What
are the merits this messenger did to reach that lofty state? Did he make as
many right decisions as his preceptor? Does the familiar saying "the adept
becomes, he is not made" still hold?

[Yes, it still holds, and Mark Prophet really worked hard to succesfully
graduate from this plane. He held the torch for the Brotherhood in the
sixties in America when so many young seekers got trapped in the chemical
counterfeit enlightenment of the sex and drugs and rock-'n-roll counter
culture.]

Govert