Theos-Talk Archives (April 1998 Message tt00099)

Dear Dallas: I agree and you presentation is very much to the point.
Spiritual growth has to come from one's own exertions and one cannot expect
a Messenger to provide enlightenment or solve our problems (which are
created by ourselves.)

We should he lucky if even when a Messenger arrives we recognize him/her.
He/She may not fit into our expectations. So let us all get to work and if
and when a Messenger arrives, I hope we will have the insight to recognize
the Messenger.

mkr
------------------------------------
At 05:38 PM 4/6/1998 -0700, you wrote:
>April 6th 1998
>
>Dallas writes:
>
>Dear Doss, and other friends on the 'line' :
>
>I've been reading the messages flying around in the past few days
>speculating on the relation of HPB to the Masters and whether a
>"new 'messenger'" will arrive before 1999. etc., etc.,
>
>Also, as to whether certain claims and messages said to emanate
>from various "High Beings," are true, useful or accurate.
>
>I recall a statement made by someone, which stuck in my mind. It
>runs like this:
>
> " The unwise look for a "messenger," while the wise look for
>a message." Brief and sharp.
>
>To me the implication is: learn what earlier "messengers" have
>taught. Compare, extract that which is common-sense. In this we
>become our own teachers, and do not require any outside teachers,
>although we are always able to welcome good advice.
>
>Compare the mission of HPB with those of which we have records
>from the past -- most of them focused on practical morality. HPB
>gave the reasons for morality. She dealt in logic, in universal
>principles, and in the inter-relation of effects which produce
>causes, not only on the originator, but on all others who are
>affected -- you and me and the whole living world.
>
>She came at a time when the yoke of a religion (widespread in the
>West) that demands lip and ritual compliance (or torture or
>death) had been forced to slacken its hold sufficiently, so that
>the reign of impersonal and practical science had arrived.
>However, even that liberating science needed deeper roots. It
>needs to be able to see deeper causes than those which, by
>observation, it seems to find primary. These, HPB provided and
>those who are wise in the Academies have seized upon those ideas
>and they have or are currently using them.
>
>Liberalism and tolerance, more than ever before ( and in spite of
>devastating world-wide wars) rule us and our ways. Also the
>freedom of research leads into greater depths of cause- seeking,
>in all departments of science and in the humanities, and these
>are put to use in government and in human relations all round the
>world -- not speedily of course, but with great effort and
>slowly.
>
>So if we are able to stand back we can see how Theosophy has
>indeed influenced world-thought. Sylvia Cranston in her recent
>biography of HPB devotes a few chapters to show this.
>
>To my mind it is not a question of who to look for, but of how
>we, working and living now with this marvelous wisdom available,
>can use it to help others. Can we make it possible for an
>"Avatara" to return ? Do we deserve it ?
>
>In the "theosophical world" there are divisions which have arisen
>because (in my esteem) people have looked for short-cuts
>convenient to their personal ways of thinking. So in various
>directions various "theosophical bodies" have taken off each in
>their own tradition. But it is HPB and her writings on behalf of
>the Masters of Wisdom that is the focal point for all this.
>
>Every time that a great being incarnates to help mankind there is
>a focusing of great effort in terms of knowledge and ethics --
>and we are still in the embrace of the effort begun over 100
>years back. In our "Theosophical" literature we are given hints,
>such as in the last pages of THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY, now quoted
>indicating how much more could be done if there is unity of
>effort and knowledge. Workers for the Great Lodge do not only
>come at 100 year intervals, when the "season" is more propitious,
>they come when needed. If we apply theosophy in our lives, we
>make it possible for Them to come and give added assistance. We
>recognize them when we have made Theosophy a living power in our
>lives. This is an effort that each one does for themselves, and
>then encourages others to do for themselves, and in this there is
>a great union of brothers and sisters.
>
>Look around. How many of us truly have studied Theosophy so as
>to know how Karma works, and where. So as to know what in man
>actually reincarnates, and what does not. Knows what the "Astral
>Light" is , and what are the "elementals" that live therein along
>with many other kinds of "beings."
>
>Are we convinced of the Unity of the Universe so that we actually
>practice brotherhood, or do we have reservations about this, or
>that individual because of they way in which they write or think
>? Where do tolerance and generosity arise ?
>
>Finally, take what HPB says about evolution as a whole -- the
>grand idea that all living things (the "life-atoms") are
>potential mind-men, given enough time (as immortals) to become so
>through experience. Where did we acquire our minds ? How are we
>using them ? Where are we going ? How does one become a Mahatma
>? -- these are of course rhetorical questions, but are only
>advanced by me to indicate all the avenues of work and thought
>that we can handle.
>
>If we do this in harmony and without waving politics, and
>impossible hopes around, we all, taken together may accomplish
>something useful. Again taking the KEY quotation and the
>necessary setting required for a "new messenger" to work
>effectively -- which of the various theosophical bodies today
>provides a tolerant, generous, and freedom from political power,
>and money-interested environment ? No. I do not mean for you or
>anyone of our friends to answer this, but only to think about it.
>
>I do not claim to have any answers that are sure or "pat." But I
>do have a lot of questions that I have been asking myself for a
>very long number of years. I can also say that I have found a
>number of answers in theosophical literature written by HPB.
>
>Best wishes as always, Dallas
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "M K Ramadoss" <ramadoss@eden.com>
>Date: Sunday, April 05, 1998 12:21 AM
>Subject: Re:Question: What signs HPB left to locate
>new messenger?
>
>>At 12:32 AM 4/5/1998 -0600, you wrote:
>>>M K Ramadoss wrote Saturday, April 04, 1998 11:00 PM:
>>>
>>>>Could there be others who are also messengers?
>>>
>>>That is an interesting question. There is one point that is
>not entirely
>>clear
>>>to me in HBP's writings. First, HPB says this person will
>come between
>>>1975-1999. After which she says it would be too late. Notice
>additionally,
>>>that she says the person is a "HE." ECP is a "SHE." As well
>as the
>>knowledge
>>>that Summit Lighthouse is not Theosophy organization. Please
>notice the text
>>>repeated
>>>below and then my additional comments following.
>>>
>>>> united body of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer
>>>> of Truth. He will find the minds of men prepared for his
>message, a
>>language
>>>> ready for him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an
>organization
>>>> awaiting his arrival, which will remove the merely
>mechanical, material
>>>> obstacles and difficulties from his path."
>>>> --H.P. Blavatsky, The Key to Theosophy
>>>> (London: Theosophical Publishing Co., 1889), pp.
>306-307.
>>>
>>>
>>>G. de Purucker mentions in the appendix area of
>FOUNTAIN-SOURCE OF
>>OCCULTISM
>>>that HBP said she would return after another person had started
>an
>>organization
>>>for HPB to work within. That seems to match the text above. I
>don't have
>>>Puruckers book to refer to at this moment. If someone could
>look it up
>>and add
>>>it into this information, I would appreciate it very much as it
>would
>>complete
>>>some thoughts I am having regarding this subject! I would
>return the favor
>>>gladly in some other way!
>>>
>>>Mr. Ramadoss, do you have any additional thoughts or supporting
>information
>>>based on Theosophy regarding this subject as I would appreciate
>them in my
>>own
>>>search for the answer to your question?
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> J M Hoover
>>
>>HPB was very clear about the messenger to be expected this
>century. From
>>what I have read, Krishnamurti fits the scenario except that he
>did not
>>pursue the plan that was expected of him by Annie Besant and
>Leadbeater.
>>With all the hype and the tremendous influence that Annie Besant
>had and
>>also the very close relationship Krishnaji had with her -- he
>always
>>referred her as mother -- he came out with the startling stand
>that "Truth
>>is a Pathless Land" and no organization or no system can take
>one to Truth.
>>He stuck to it rest of his life with no wavering or
>modification.
>>
>>
>>Considering the huge number of people who have been affected by
>>Krishnamurti, there is a very good possibility he may fit the
>profile.
>>
>>Having said all this, no one can be sure. May be a 1,000 years
>from now, if
>>no one knows about Krishnamurti or his writings/speeches, then
>we can
>>dismiss him. If on the other hand his philosophy flourishes at
>that time,
>>then it would be a corrobortive information.
>>
>>However there are many who does not think that he does not fit
>the profile.
>>So this argument may go on for many years to come.
>>
>>The above is just my view. Others mileage and direction may
>vary.
>>
>>mkr
>>
>>
>theos-talk@theosophy.com
>>
>consisting of
>theos-talk-request@theosophy.com.
>>