Re: theos-talk Re: Sectarian? - Has money obesity led to TS lethargy?
Jan 13, 2012 09:58 AM
by M. Sufilight
Dear Marcus and friends
My views are:
Thank you for your answers.
1.
The Theosophical Society,
The promotion of a Theosophical Society, which is Absolutely Non-Sectarian is of course not for all and everyone - to join - at any given time in the evolution of mankind. And altruism can be promote outside membership of such an organisation. No doubt about this. History aught to give us evidence on this. As you said Marcus: "because each individual must find their path".
And in that sense I think we can agree. But I ask how can Sectarian promotions be Altruism compared to Absolutely Non-Sectarian promotions of Altruism. The latter seems clearly in many respects to outrun the former - with regard to ethics, do you not think so?
2.
Marcus wrote:
"After reading all of your last posting, it seems that much of your world is in conflict. "
M. Sufilight says:
Now you get personal with me. Smile.
Why do you perceive or assume I am in conflict with myself. Where does that projection of yours atctually originate from?
On H. P. Blavatsky:
My previous post was not referring to Blavatsky own teachings - but to the original non-sectarian Theosophical Society, which is the focus of this thread. But allright, altruism is the main thing.
_______________
3.
Marcus wrote:
"If HPB were alive today (perhaps she is ???) how would she respond to your last post. Lead by example, the example of Altruism.
Perhaps she would advise - patience is a virtue and virtue is its own reward.
M Sufilight said - they are well known to the true "Founders" and the protectors of our Society.
In this sentance I sense fear and anger. Fear and anger is not Altruism."
M. Sufilight says:
Since you are not Blavatsky, obviously not, your answer is as I see it in a sense blowing in the wind based on assumptions.
I merely suggest: Let not patience be the same as inactivity. And Blavatsky said something similar in her book The key to Theosophy.
No Marcus - I - did not say that about the true founders. Blavatsky said it, and wrote it in the Key to Theosophy, p. 271-272.
What I merely intended saying was that she was forwarding her own point of view - (not as a sectarian doctrine on behalf of the Society, but as her own view) - with regard to the problems the T.S. had in her time. The title of the paragraph in the reference (p. 271-272) was named: "WHY, THEN, IS THERE SO MUCH PREJUDICE AGAINST THE T. S.?"
The "anger" and "fear" you sense - is of course merely due to your interpretation. Others interpret it as a kind and compassionate attempt to assure people about that the founders protect the Society, despite all the mud being daily thrown at it. And to challenge those who as Blavatsky said it --- "work in silence and behind the backs of the foolish puppets who act as their visible marionnettes" ---- those, if I may be permitted to add it, - those who work with a heavy tendency to lack self-criticism in the name of compassion - and - who work more in secrecy than in open - promotions - sincere non-sectarian honesty and altruism in and around TS Adyar - even today. We know people on their fruits, on our own level of knowledge. (Any comments?)
----- I know...I know, that I am criticising the TS. But I am doing it well-meaningly seeking to help us all. Those who are so thin-skinned that they do not appreciate - criticism or rather proposals on improvement of the TS - directed at improving altruism -- aught as I see it to seek help. Because a person with such a nervous mindset (or perhaps instead pompous attitude, personality attitude) - is not going to be very helpful in promoting altruism. This must be clear.
I hold no grudge against TS and TS Adyar at all - on the contrary - I am merely seeking to help this organisation back on track to the Original TS Programe adapted ot our present day - and - increase its membership. - From the heart I write all this - and I even use my time on it. And I am not thanked for it by any of the TS members or by next to none of the readers of my posts. And since I am independant from any spiritual Society - except the non-sectarian seeking forum (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk-heart/) - I can not be said to have anything but good intentions.
I am deeply touched by the recent videos from TS on youtube. They are telling me a lot - when my senses reach behind the veils.
So I suggest the TS seek to do something like the following:
(1) --- Give much More emphasis in the TS on being Absolutely Non-sectarian - and Absolutely Non-political (please get clearly and firmly out of the blurred political stance, with regard ot especially the Annie Besant and S. Subramania Iyer etc. shadows - of being "founders" of the National Congress of India) - Create also a clear stance on these two subject in the - through the decades - much revised Constitution and Rules of the TS. -
(2) --- Close down the Shrines in TS Adyar for any public access. By only allowing some shrines - and - one single specially appointed New Age sect (LCC) on the TS Adyar compound - is NOT removing the Sectarian mud from the altruistic and compassionate objects of the TS - The main object of the TS is altruism - promoted in an Absolutely Non-Sectarian manner. (If you allow special emphasis on the New Age organisation the Liberal Catholic Church and its rites on the TS Adyar compound - why should not allow other New Age groups on the compound? - Or is it a question about being old-fashioned sentimental - instead of sincere and honest in your altruism? - And similar questions - analogically - with the other Shrines.)
(3) --- Be firm and clear in each country you have a centre and lodge - towards all journalists, historians, authors, and onlookers etc. etc. - with regard to the TS being Absolutely Non-Sectarian - and what this term ACTUALLY implies (!) - In the face of the public, the journalists, the historians, the many opponents of the TS - see to it that you Clear up the past so-called mistakes of the Society - by saying that various members might have failed - NOT on behalf of the Society - but on behalf of themselves - and explain the difference of this clearly. - And that the Constitution and Rules of the Society might have been changed or not adhered to by various - leaders in the Society's administration through the decades. And that mistake rests on the Society it self - Errare Human Est. But the aims of the Society is solid - ie., promoting altruism based on an Absolutely Non-Sectarian organisational structure. Or the Constitution and Rules are when changed back to the Original Content given in 1890-1891 - centrally with regard to Article I and XIII therein.
(4) --- Be clear about that because TS being Absolutely Non-sectarian with its main aim of promoting Altruism ---- it can for good reasons not allow that its organisation get entangled with politics - one way or the other. And therefore can its administrative officials not be members of political legislative parties or meddle directly with politics and lawmaking in any manner what so ever. This was the original program of the TS. And that if it had been deviated from in the past decades - it is only to be regretted deeply in the name of altruism - The TS must stand as an Absolutely Non-political organisation in any manner what so ever. Each member are own their own with regard to seek social or primarily ethical uplift in the Society. Because social uplift is not necessarily the same as ethical uplift.
(5) --- Clearly promote why the TS has to be Absolutely Non-sectarian and Absolutely Non-political - because altruism promoted through a Sectarian organisation or a political one - will always be hampered by psychological conditioning factors - or psychological "persuading" techniques of various kinds - sometimes even by the use of force. This is in fact based on ordinary scientific psychological knowledge these days. And Unity is strength - when leaders or just ordinary members of claimed altruistic sects face each other as members of a non-sectarian Society - then we will see what altruism is all about. This is a logical conclusion. - And that is perhaps why most people tend to agree that the promotion af sects are less altruistic than the promotion of an Absolutely Non-sectarian organisation - allowing comparative studying on EQUAL footing - respecting each individual by the use of the ones own claimed Heart of compassion.
(6) --- Ask yourselves the question - if the Theosophical Scoiety has as its main aim the promotion of Altruism - based on an Absolutely Non-Secatarian and Non-Poltical organisational structure - is it still following the original programe of - self-evidently as a consequence of it - being in a clear (not blurred) opposition to any dogmatic Church and sect? Because dogmatism is clearly the opposite of altruism. Or am I wrong?
(About "mud" versus Altruism ----- try this story or tale given to be connected with Buddha - called "Peace of Mind": http://www.rogerdarlington.me.uk/stories.html)
Of course the above suggestions are just my ideas shortly stated.
----- By doing the above - using ethical marketing on the various TS websites --- and through the TS magazines ---- and by writing --- individually (not on behalf of the Society but on behalf of yourselves as members - or truly humble ordinary administrators, ie. janitors and "paper-pushers") --- regularly - to various newspapers and other outlets in our informations society --- I do think that the mud will come of - and - you will have done a great work helping the "washer-woman" (smile.) --- ie. altruism. Else it will stick like glue - and altruism will not be spread - but merely run its own - slow course of a decline in membership of the Society.- The above words can be adjusted and reformulated. All of it are of course just my views. But.....Any comments?
Is altruism important for you?
Do you understand my ideas better when considering the here above words - on the sectarian and non-sectarian - and TS role in it all through the decades - and how most spiritual people almost inevitably will view the TS - when they initially come across the organisation?
I suggest....Try to read or "read" some - scientific - books by the Exit-Counsellors - and compare them with your own worldviews. That is what I recommend based on the answer you now are givning me. Or tell me clearly whether you find Sectarian promotions to be better than non-Sectarian ones?
Steve Hassan on CNN's Sonia Live 1 + 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4NfLSjTu4w&feature=related
>>>>> Or ....as an example of many.....<<<<<
CUT/Summit Lighthouse on Oprah 1 - 5
(Eminent leader(s) at the top? Can it be avoided? Yes, clearly so.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZzEcLYehME
Church Universal and Triumphant
(A New Age organisation - it seems heavily going down in membership....Claire Prophet died in 2009...Here daughters stopped working for the organisations...expressing regret.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Universal_and_Triumphant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Clare_Prophet
_______________
4.
Marcus wrote:
A Wise man once said â
Change the way you look at the world and the world will change.
M. Sufilight says:
On this I will wholeheartedly agree.
And I am not impatient - although some might preceive me to be so - or - even be on the look out for me being so. Or even seek to plaster me with such a prejudicial idea.
But inactivity - never turned - the the muddy house or hq of cunning rats - into something beautiful, as the old saying goes. And that hq is sometimes between the ears ---- at other times it rests in the boosom of the Absolutely Non-sectarian Heart of Compassion.
The silence from the Theosophical Society members are stunning. You are an exception Marcus, I grant that. And thank you for at least taking it all seriously.
Do none of the TS members read what I have written in my past three or four posts so to help improve the Society and increase its membership?
Is altruism unimportant? Are we to understand that silence is contempt or secrecy is better than an open heart?
______________
All the above are of course only my humble views.
But maybe some of the long time theosophists or other members on this forum would tell me something - I have overlooked - or could improve upon. I would gladly welcome something like that.
Altruism is important, is it not?
I do not claim my self infallible. - I just have the hope that you as members find the above useful. And that they - actually - do something about the problems presented.
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: marcus_a_hughes
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 2:06 PM
Subject: theos-talk Re: Sectarian? - Has money obesity led to TS lethargy?
.
Thank you kindly M.Sufilight,
With all reverence and respect.
Very interesting but quit sad.
After reading all of your last posting, it seems that much of your world is in conflict. Human social order is going through its usual growing pains and the inner Sanctum Sanatoriums of it's many organisations are no different to our past, or our future.
The oppression of the freethinker will always exist. Helena Petrovna Blavatsky (HPB) knew this.
Please forgive me, but surly the teachings of HPB were of those core principles for spiritual awakening and the truth of this, our human condition. In hope that others, like herself would follow the example and reveal their inner peace. There is not a dogma in the world that can provide such a condition because each individual must find their path. All paths being different, HPB would only offer advice and guidance when the correct question was posed.
If HPB were alive today (perhaps she is ???) how would she respond to your last post. Lead by example, the example of Altruism.
Perhaps she would advise - patience is a virtue and virtue is its own reward.
M Sufilight said - they are well known to the true "Founders" and the protectors of our Society.
In this sentance I sense fear and anger. Fear and anger is not Altruism.
A Wise man once said â
Change the way you look at the world and the world will change.
Maybe all the bad stuff in this world is a perfect platform for Good.
Maybe every sentient being is supposed to find inner-peace for them self in their own way.
.
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Marcus and friends
>
> My views are:
>
> Thank you for your reply.
> Yes. I find that the promotion of altruism - based on a clear and unevovical Absolute Non-Sectarian activity is word while fighting for.
>
>
> _________________
> To all the readers...
> Here is a short article which seek to show some other angles to the problem in mention, - as I see it.
> Others might have different views.
>
> 1. --- Sects and Cults - in the New Area compared with the Theosophical Society ---
> We have during the last decades on this planet witnessed the cry go out against - all the new religious organisations on this planet - especially in the Western countries - that they all merely were Sects or worse UGLY and SINISTER Cults...
> - The cries, (often fearful mind you), often came from Christian related families or friends - who were more or less close to the perceived "victim" of a sect or a cult..
> And psychologists and various indignated, scared or afraid families (Christian or non-Christian) used the method called De-programming (ie. often kidnapping the "victim" away from the sect or cult) - so to help so-called "victims" of a given New Religious movement. This especially occurred in the 1960'ties and 1970'ties in the "Flower Power" days - when sects and cults swarmed USA and Western Europe etc. It still occÃÂr from time to time. Later the De-programming method got abandoned almost completely - because it not seldom worsened the situation for the claimed "victim" - And instead - as a result - a method was developed which today is known as - Exit-counselling or similar. Exit-counselling is named as a pedagogical psychological method - with voluntary meetings between the claimed "victim" and his or her family or often close friends ( or similar) - on what is called neutral ground - at a place all parties agree on. At the meeting the Exit-Counsellor (or a psychologist) - ask if the "victim" would like to see a video about the Sect or Cult - and perhaps ask "victim" if he or she would like to meet one or more former members of the sect or cult in mention. And they talk and exchange views. Sometimes the "victim" is not a victim, but are happy in the cult or sect. At other times not, and at other times the "victim" see the light - and understand that the actual sect or cult - was in fact sinister. (Maybe it has paedophile leanings, or give emphasis on a fanatical messiah-craze, or deceive its members - by lying or earned money from the members savings or - operated in a secretive manner, while manipulating fear into the members - for instance about the dark brotherhood - or "100 extra reincarnations if you are not a member theories" or sin - or eternal hell or similar fobia indoctrination - and other similar stuff. There are many methods being used. These are just a few examples. --- I do hope you get my drift... - Sometimes people strangely enough are happy about something like that - and then they can hardly be called victims - unless they are given an opportunity to see the situation from various angles and decide what they themselves - think about it all.)
>
> To much better understand the huge difference between an Absolutely Non-Sectarian organisation and - the opposite - I will not hesitate recommend reading a few books on Exit-Counselling.
> We are talking about scientific based books - not belief based books.
> Try for instance --- "Combatting Cult Mind Control", 1988, by the well-known exit-counsellor and psychologist - Steve Hassan. --- I am of course not agreeing with this author about a number of things. But the book aught to be an eye-opener to any person who are not aware of - the huge differences - there can and do exist between a ordinary sectarian organisations on the one hand and non-sectarian ones on the other hand. We are here centrally dealing with logical thinking and Science in this book - (A Psychological Key) - not beliefs about how the world operates. This aught to be understood when reading the book. (Have any members of this forum read it? And what do you think?)
>
>
> 2. --- With regard to the increasing lack of membership of the Theosophical Society ---
> Taking the above paragraph of mine into account. What is clear to me is, that everytime a given individual considers membership of the Theosophical Society - a great number of them the run away, sometimes, almost screaming - because of the historical image of the Society - wellknown on Youtube, Wikipedia, in encyclopedias, and elsewhere - A sectarian image which has been generated of this organisation by prejudice and ignorance among journalists, historians, and no doubt christian in Western countries - about its VERY IMPORTANT original Non-Sectarian - aim on honest and sincere Altruism and non-sectarian Organisational structure and original Non-Sectarian Constitution. --- And in fact the same goes more or less for various other theosophical off-shoots - unless they succeed in disguising certain past historical events of the Theosophical Society or similar. (- The SPR report on "muslin and bladder", the Messiah - Star Camp failure, the Political involvements, the Paedophile cases, the Swastica prejudice, profit-machine, etc. etc.) Not, really, as I see it, an attractive organisation for well-known Professors, authors, or, leading "personalities" in society, and even so-called ordinary persons to be members of - simply because of these past events - and - the lack of a clearly promoted Absolutely Non-Sectarian stance (and for god reasons a clear Non-political one as well) - organisational speaking - and thereby with regard to sincere Altruistic promotion. - As long as various historians - for obvious reasons - have difficulties in clearly saying that the Theosophical Society is Absolutely Non-Sectarian - the Society will be dealt with accordingly - with regard to the same lack of clarity with regard to its - claimed - altruistic aims.
>
> This bad and false image of the Theosophical Society has to be removed - if the Society and especially its members have any honest and wholehearted intentions of promoting Altruism in a Sincere and honest manner. This must be a fact.
>
> In the early years of the Theosophical Society 1875-1891 a lot of energy went into doing an effort to remove false images of the Society and its aims. Images almost weekly, so to speak, spoon-feed by journalists or various Christians or esteemed Professors. This can be documented - one can read about it online on the Internet. (See here the main magazine The Theosophist and Lucifer from the early days of the Society's existence. http://blavatskyarchives.com/theosophypdfs/early_theosophical_publications.htm - Thanks are given to Daniel Caldwell and friends for doing the effort of having it online !!!) In the last decades no much effort seem to have been done.
> And this - lack of effort - is at the same time called proper Altruism by the members of the same Society. I wonder? Is this actually how it aught to be - when promoting non-sectarian Altruism - because true Altruism can never be sectarian or be tainted with it, --- can it?
> Would it not be better to do a wholehearted effort in eagerly - seeking to remove all these false images (of past events and intentions) about the Theosophical Society - in the eyes of ordinary outsiders and casual onlookers - that it is merely another Sect or even a Cult - having "Liberal" Convents in Adyar every year - with a strange New Age Church-sect on the Compound - celebrating a weird re-formulated "attractive" Christmas at the same time??? A sect where merely sinister activities and deceit and secrecy - is perceived by many persons to be going on? (The latest video-s on Youtube - are noted by me as an improvement, although a meagre one so far.)
> Why on earth create such a - strange odour and having it surround the Society - and call this Altruism - and even honest and sincere Altruism?
> (Allright - errare humanum est - as they say. We humans fail - and - can only do out best. Myself included.)
>
> 3. --- A few examples on how the Theosophical Society is being put down as a sect ----
> http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Theosophical_Society.aspx (The Theosophical Society - pictured as a sect with a certain sectarian teaching)
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/theosophy (The Theosophical Society - pictured as a sect with a certain sectarian teaching)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophical_Society (The Theosophical Society - pictured as a sect with a certain sectarian teaching --- UNTIL I MYSELF interfered and added the aims of the old Constitution to this much visited page !!! - The theosophists themselves - apparntly did not find it important or altruistic time to do the effort.)
> And there are several other links on the Internet and elsewhere about the Theosophical Society being a sect forwarding - esoteric teachings or similar. - This false image aught to be dealt with - IN THE NAME OF ALTRUISM (!) - But that is only- one - part of the story. Then there is the lack of understanding the actual difference between a Sectarian or Cult organisation - versus - an Absolutely Non-Sectarian one. - And this also has to be dealt with -
>
> A Side-note to the above paragraph:
> (Even Blavatsky the editor of the magazine the Theosophist - had her trouble in this regard in the early years of the existence of the Society - See The Key to Theosophy, p. 271-272 -
> And I quote:
> "It is; but you must bear in mind how many powerful adversaries we have aroused ever since the formation of our Society. " ...."Intrinsically, Theosophy is the most serious movement of this age; and one, moreover, which threatens the very life of most of the time-honoured humbugs, prejudices, and social evils of the day Ãââ those evils which fatten and make happy the upper ten and their imitators and sycophants, the wealthy dozens of the middle classes, while they positively crush and starve out of existence the millions of the poor. Think of this, and you will easily understand the reason of such a relentless persecution by those others who, more observant and perspicacious, do see the true nature of Theosophy, and therefore dread it. "...."I do not call the enemies we have had to battle with during the first nine or ten years of the Society's existence either powerful or "dangerous"; but only those who have arisen against us in the last three or four years. And these neither speak, write nor preach against Theosophy, but work in silence and behind the backs of the foolish puppets who act as their visible marionnettes. Yet, if invisible to most of the members of our Society, they are well known to the true "Founders" and the protectors of our Society. But they must remain for certain reasons unnamed at present. "---- etc. etc. )
>
> If you want to promote Altruism. You most often do not begin with painting the picture - of being a sect - and present it eagerly to the Journalists, the historians, the enccylopedias, other religions, and casual onlookers. Do you?
>
>
> All the above are of course only my humble views.
> But maybe some of the long time theosophists or other members on this forum would tell me something - I have overlooked - or could improve upon. I would gladly welcome something like that.
> I do not claim my self infallible. - I just have the hope that you as members find the above useful. And that they - actually - do something about the problems presented.
>
>
>
> M. Sufilight
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: marcus_a_hughes
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:03 PM
> Subject: theos-talk Re: Has money obesity led to TS lethargy?
>
>
>
> .
>
> Thanks M.Sufilight,
>
> Sorry to read of your discontent over the politics of TS.
>
> Personally I have only been a member for the last few months and have no opinion.
>
> Obviously Sectarianism in any organisation which hopes to assist mankinds spiritual development will led to the corruption of the original intentions toward spiritual growth. Adolf Hitler believed he was Gods messenger and the he alone was to improve mankind. The problem is ancient, all our great organisations rose to fame, became powerful, then corrupt. Corruption is fundamental to our lower human nature. It is part of the design specification for the Human Being.
>
> Never forget. The truth is the truth. The Buddha said, all that begins must end.
>
> Honestly : Today January 2012, there are many spiritual brotherhoods struggling to survive. Rest assured that only Good can ultimately prevail. Bad by its nature must destroy its self. Fear not for these divine, default settings of mankind.
>
> Secular divisions and conflict will enable the cleansing of corporate egos ÃâÂÃâÂÃâÂÃâÂ. Its all happened before.
>
> Corporate politics ÃâÂÃâÂÃâÂ. Not worth fighting for.
>
> .
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@> wrote:
> >
> > Good question.
> > I can only ask the same.
> >
> >
> > _________________
> > Dear friends
> >
> > My views are:
> >
> > And then add:
> > Change - in the universe of time - occur when time yields an impulse for change.
> > Optional impulses are already present. And TS has changed during the last years more or less - and discussions are ongoing in TS as far as it officially has been given out, with regard to organisational change (See earlier posts here on Theos-talk). Which impulse are going to be the new central one is not visible to all interested parties. Not yet it seems.
> >
> > Here are a two articles from the - major branch - the Theosophical Society - America website, whoc touches upon this issue.
> > See my comments in the below.
> >
> > Thinking Aloud: The Specialization of Theosophy --- By Eldon Tucker
> > (The author says: "What is it that is the purpose of our Theosophical Society? The three objects--brotherhood, study of comparative religions, and investigation of the unexplained and latent--fall somewhere between the extremes of a pro-Krishnamurti anarchism where all spiritual authorities (except himself) are rejected and a dead-letter worship of the writings of Blavatsky that would make fundamentalist Christians seem liberal by comparison." ------ That is one version. There are other variations of the theme...... Then the author alter says....."If I could define Theosophy for the Theosophical Society, I'd say that it is a distinct body of esoteric doctrines derived from the Mahatmas, given to us by Blavatsky and perhaps a few other initiates".....
> >
> > M. Sufilight says:
> > ...That is a sectarian stance, and not a non-sectarian one. I hesitate on saying that this is The Theosophical Society proper as its original intentions was. - And there is more in that article speaking on behalf of the Theosophical Society - which at the same time claim - freedom of thought. Well that freedom is hampered by such teachings - on BEHALF of the Society - if I may say so. And this was not a part of the original Theosophical Society in 1875-1891 - which according to tits constitution and rules were Absolutely Non-Sectarian. - See the magazine named - the Theosophists Jan. 1891 - This is not an attack on the author behind the article. It is merely a wish and a hope that the Society returns to the original Absolutely Non-Sectarian programe given by the founders.)
> > http://www.theosophical.org/publications/quest-magazine/1575
> >
> > A Vision for Our Future - by Mo Michel
> > (The author says: "It is about focusing on ways in which Theosophy can meet the needs of people in the 21st century." I like that....Then he writes: "The Society holds that inevitably, our actions, feelings, and thoughts affect all other beings, all life around us. We find that each of us is capable of and responsible for contributing to the benefit of the whole."
> >
> > M. Sufilight says:
> > ...That is a sectarian stance, and not a non-sectarian one. I hesitate on saying that this is The Theosophical Society proper as its original intentions was. - And there is more in that article speaking on behalf of the Theosophical Society - which at the same time claim - freedom of thought. Well that freedom is hampered by such teachings - on BEHALF of the Society - if I may say so. And this was not a part of the original Theosophical Society in 1875-1891 - which according to tits constitution and rules were Absolutely Non-Sectarian. - See the magazine named - the Theosophists Jan. 1891 - This is not an attack on the author behind the article. It is merely a wish and a hope that the Society returns to the original Absolutely Non-Sectarian programe given by the founders.)
> > http://www.theosophical.org/membership/members-visioning
> >
> > I do not mind freedom of speech - when we seek altruism in a well-meant manner in our intentions.
> > And I welcome freedom of thought.
> > But I reject the above sectarian idea - that one on behalf of the Society will turn the Original Programe of the Theosophical Society into something sectarian. Let each member have their own worldview - but most certainly NOT on BEHALF OF THE SOCIETY.
> > The Theosophical Society in 1875-1891 had a programe and a constitution which was clearly Absolutely Non-Sectarian in its aim.
> > See it here one more time:
> >
> > 1)
> > CONSTITUTION AND RULES OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY
> > "The Theosophical Society is absolutely unsectarian"
> > .......
> > " No Fellow, Officer, or Council of the Theosophical Society, or of any Section or Branch thereof, shall promulgate or maintain any doctrines being that advanced, or advocated by the Society."
> > http://www.teozofija.info/tsmembers/Rules_1890.htm
> >
> > 2)
> > [ÃÂÃâÂÃ"ORIGINAL PROGRAMMEÃÂÃâÂàMANUSCRIPT] as given by the co-founder Blavatsky
> > "But if the two Founders were not told what they had to do, they were distinctly instructed about what they should never do, what they had to avoid, and what the Society should never become. Church organizations, Christian and Spiritual sects were shown as the future contrasts to our Society."
> > .......
> > "The Founders had to exercise all their influence to oppose selfishness of any kind, by insisting upon sincere, fraternal feelings among the MembersÃÂÃâÂ"at least outwardly; working for it to bring about a spirit of unity and harmony, the great diversity of creeds notwithstanding; expecting and demanding from the Fellows, a great mutual toleration and charity for each otherÃÂÃâÂÃâÂs shortcomings; mutual help in the research of truths in every domainÃÂÃâÂ"moral or physicalÃÂÃâÂ"and even, in daily life. "
> > .......
> > "They had to oppose in the strongest manner possible anything approaching dogmatic faith and fanaticismÃÂÃâÂ"belief in the infallibility of the Masters, or even in the very existence of our invisible Teachers, having to be checked from the first. On the other hand, as a great respect for the private views and creeds of every member was demanded, any Fellow criticising the faith or belief of another Fellow, hurting his feelings, or showing a reprehensible self-assertion, unasked (mutual friendly advices were a duty unless declined)ÃÂÃâÂ"such a member incurred expulsion. The greatest spirit of free research untrammelled by anyone or anything, had to be encouraged."
> > (The words by Blavatsky are of course her own. But the aim of the programe - sought by her and Olcott was like she wrote about it.)
> > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v7/yxxxx_019.htm
> >
> >
> > My suggestion is:
> > Stick to the Original Programe - of being Absolutely Non-Sectarian - and - do this in the name of ALTRUISM - (Ie., The first and main object of the Society) - Promote officially - and eagerly - that the Society is Absolutely Non-Sectarian - And send this message to all other theosohical branches - and to all journalists (!) - and affilliated organisations. - And add that mistakes had been made in the past - and - non the Society is back on track. - The past - claimed problematic - events by various individuals, was due to the Society more or less drifted on to a Sectarian sand-bank and bathed in the mud like a hen laying its eegs - AND - that each individuals assumed (by journalists and historians and Christians) failings - entirely rested on the individual and not on the Society - which was Absolutely Non-Sectarian until the year 1908 or so.
> > If you are unwilling - I ask you: Why are you not willing to eagerly promote and market the Society as being Absolutely Non-Sectarian???
> >
> >
> > Any comments?
> > (Silence is consent.)
> >
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Hughes, Marcus
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 4:57 PM
> > Subject: RE: theos-talk Has money obesity led to TS lethargy?
> >
> >
> >
> > The only true constant is change.
> > TS is always changing, like this universe.
> >
> > Question is how ????
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MKR
> > Sent: 11 January 2012 3:38 PM
> > To: theos-talk
> > Subject: theos-talk Has money obesity led to TS lethargy?
> >
> >
> >
> > Has obesity led to TS lethargy?
> >
> > When TS was launched with just two individuals, HSO and HPB, they
> > accomplished a lot when travel and living conditions were very difficult.
> > They traveled and lectured far and wide and TS grew in leaps and bounds
> > around the world. Looking back, we are convinced of the wisdom of the Inner
> > Founders in choosing both of them. (They were meat eaters and smokers.
> > Shocking for anyone who has a stereotype of spiritual person today.) One
> > problem they did not have was to deal with managing a lot of money in the
> > bank and lot of property to be administered.
> >
> > Lo and behold. What do we have now? Membership is going South for years
> > except for India. Bank balances are becoming fatter and real estate
> > ownership accumulating. Dues have been increased in many Sections and
> > continued solicitation for donations. Aging leaders who know not what is
> > going on in real world of communication based on Internet. Looks like
> > obesity has set in slowly. And obesity leads to inactivity and lethargy.
> > Obesity is not good for oneÃÂÃâÂÃâÂs health. By analogy it is true for spiritual
> > organizations as well.
> >
> > For years, for example we have not seen any elected officials or traveling
> > lecturers in my city which is the seventh largest city in the USA. One
> > reason may be lodge does not have money or property to attract elected
> > officials.
> >
> > Recently we were thrilled to see Professor MenonÃÂÃâÂÃâÂs lecture on Theosophy and
> > Science put up on Youtube for the world to see. We heard that other
> > lectures were also videoed but yet to see any of them on Youtube. By the
> > way, Youtube is free. Does not cost a penny other than upload time and
> > resources. No one knows what is going on.
> >
> > The GC meeting was held on December 25. Members know nothing about what was
> > discussed and what decisions were taken. Neither there is any news from
> > Adyar nor from the Sections on the meeting. Usually months after the
> > meeting, few crumbs are reported in print media. Why Internet is not used
> > to inform members on a timely basis on key issues discussed and decisions
> > taken?
> >
> > For many members who have been around and very active for years, seeing all
> > this is very painful. If this trend continues, it may be time for the
> > traditional organizational model to change. Internet is the most powerful
> > change agent we have today and its reach has affected every aspect of
> > Humanity. More is yet to come.
> >
> > Any feedback???
> >
> > MKR
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
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> >
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