Theos-Talk Archives (November 2011 Message tt00051)

Dear Cass and friends

My views are:

I can only recommend that you read books written by Exit-Counsellors and psychologists on the science on Subtle Mind Control.
Maybe you are right, maybe your are not. I therefore suggest a comparative studying of Krishnamurti and the present day science on Sublte Mind Control.
If you can provide a clear formulation with various quote showing that Krishrnamurti did not do a small effort with regard to the problems of Subtle Mind Control I will be happy. 
I have not found such passages in his teachings and with emphasis on passages well-formulated and clearly addressing the whole issue.

Can you do that and are you willing to forward a comparative study on this?

I think you confuse Subtle Mind Control with something else than what I consider it to be.



M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cass Silva 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:20 AM
  Subject: Re: theos-talk Occult Research of Besant and CWL - Recent observations by a scientist


    
  Well Morten there is nothing subtle about mastering ourselves.  A conscious decision must be made to observe the subtleties of thought, deed and action employed by the lower self or personality.  The dross has to be cleared out first - that is the accumulated contents of the psyche.  Krishnamurti spent his whole life emphasizing and reemphasizing this and even gave the breakdown on what our insecurities and fears were based on, and repeated ad infinitum that until this is cleared there is no chance of living in the 'now' with those accumulated personality traits.  So I would disagree emphatically with you that he did a small effort.  Perhaps you have misunderstood him.

  Cass

  >________________________________
  > From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@Xi_U3g597TnrX_HaQGSpHWIeyJKT9N9gMXukoLmnmGW-sMuRrM5IB0v84UDMNRfqq4WuWY-aCCFb2kxpvDVnPxkWsQ.yahoo.invalid>
  >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2011 9:38 AM
  >Subject: Re: theos-talk Occult Research of Besant and CWL - Recent observations by a scientist
  > 
  >
  >  
  >Yes. Indeed he did.
  >
  >But he did not do a strong effort in telling people that such a psychological change - aught not to come about by the use of Subtle Mind Control and the use of conditioning factors - like Guruism and other issues. Well, not as far as I know. But he did a small effort.
  >
  >M. Sufilight
  >
  >----- Original Message ----- 
  >From: Cass Silva 
  >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 1:30 AM
  >Subject: Re: theos-talk Occult Research of Besant and CWL - Recent observations by a scientist
  >
  >Psychological change IMO, is what Krisnamurti explored and opened our eyes too. We must understand why we are jealous, possessive, insecure, etc in order to change our patterns of thinking.
  >Cass
  >
  >>________________________________
  >> From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@Xi_U3g597TnrX_HaQGSpHWIeyJKT9N9gMXukoLmnmGW-sMuRrM5IB0v84UDMNRfqq4WuWY-aCCFb2kxpvDVnPxkWsQ.yahoo.invalid>
  >>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >>Sent: Friday, 18 November 2011 10:03 PM
  >>Subject: Re: theos-talk Occult Research of Besant and CWL - Recent observations by a scientist
  >> 
  >>
  >> 
  >>Dear Cass and friends
  >>
  >>My views are:
  >>
  >>Cass wrote:
  >>"You pointed out yourself that the importance lay in purifying one's bodies and I was just querying what this actually means in real terms, as I am somewhat convinced that many theosophists believe it is merely becoming vegetarian and alcohol free."
  >>
  >>M. Sufilight says:
  >>Okay I think I got your point.
  >>And where did I point that out in my post?
  >>See your reply to my post here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/57027 
  >>
  >>I asked there:
  >>"I wonder whether the Theosophical Society is a sect or non-sectarian?
  >>Or whether it was a sect or non-sectarian?"
  >>
  >>However, as a Sufi saying goes:
  >>Maybe you are writing to the wall so that the door my hear the bell ringing. 
  >>And that might be a good idea.
  >>
  >>____________
  >>What I am saying at other places is that - psychological change - has to occur if altruism is sought to be promoted.
  >>If true, each persons will have to find out what that psychological change - imply or might imply. And since psychology today is a science, there must some solid ground to research here.
  >>To tell people about it and what to do might involve conditioning factors and even Subtle Mind Control. I think one aught to consider that.
  >>So to learn about the difference between sectarian and non-sectarian thinking and what it is seem to be - could seem to be important when psychological change occurs.
  >>
  >>This could be a purification of the bodies in theosophical terms of a 7-fold body - or - in the name of non-sectarian thinking - it could be something different. But a psychological change seems necessary from the scientific proofs we have available today. Because the science of psychology has existed since about 1880 and has now matured so much that it is broadly recognized on the globe by millions of fellow human beings. But not much seems to be known about it by people in general and about its possible positive consequences.
  >>
  >>But the question was about sectarian behaviour in TS or not.
  >>No answers so far from any in the Theosophical Society. A Society which primary aim is to promote altruism.
  >>An aim which apperently primarily is being performed by saying nothing. (smile.)
  >>
  >>And that baffles me.
  >>
  >>M. Sufilight
  >>
  >>----- Original Message ----- 
  >>From: Cass Silva 
  >>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >>Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 12:06 AM
  >>Subject: Re: theos-talk Occult Research of Besant and CWL - Recent observations by a scientist
  >>
  >>Is the point really about who said what, shouldn't it be about Argawal's ideas on merging with Atman. You pointed out yourself that the importance lay in purifying one's bodies and I was just querying what this actually means in real terms, as I am somewhat convinced that many theosophists believe it is merely becoming vegetarian and alcohol free.
  >>
  >>Cass
  >>
  >>>________________________________
  >>>From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@Xi_U3g597TnrX_HaQGSpHWIeyJKT9N9gMXukoLmnmGW-sMuRrM5IB0v84UDMNRfqq4WuWY-aCCFb2kxpvDVnPxkWsQ.yahoo.invalid>
  >>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  >>>Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2011 8:36 PM
  >>>Subject: Re: theos-talk Occult Research of Besant and CWL - Recent observations by a scientist
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> 
  >>>Well...your previous reply (see it here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/57027 ) was actually a reply to the following questions by me...:
  >>>
  >>>M. Sufilight says:
  >>>I wonder whether the Theosophical Society is a sect or non-sectarian?
  >>>Or whether it was a sect or non-sectarian?
  >>>
  >>>_________
  >>>I did not conclude that you have said it was a sect. I in fact asked you whether that was what you meant.
  >>>I am almost sorry that I asked you since you answer like this. But maybe your answer was just an expression of your ussual overflow of happiness and compassion. 
  >>>
  >>>M. Sufilight
  >>>
  >>>----- Original Message ----- 
  >>>From: Cass Silva 
  >>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >>>Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:40 PM
  >>>Subject: Re: theos-talk Occult Research of Besant and CWL - Recent observations by a scientist
  >>>
  >>>Depends how you define a sect and I an interested to know how you have linked purification of the bodies with a sect. Do you know what is meant by purification of the bodies?
  >>>Cass
  >>>
  >>>>________________________________
  >>>>From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@Xi_U3g597TnrX_HaQGSpHWIeyJKT9N9gMXukoLmnmGW-sMuRrM5IB0v84UDMNRfqq4WuWY-aCCFb2kxpvDVnPxkWsQ.yahoo.invalid>
  >>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  >>>>Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2011 8:35 PM
  >>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk Occult Research of Besant and CWL - Recent observations by a scientist
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 
  >>>>Okay Cass.
  >>>>So I take it, that you consider the Theosophical Society to be a sect?
  >>>>Are you able to document that?
  >>>>
  >>>>M. Sufilight
  >>>>
  >>>>----- Original Message ----- 
  >>>>From: Cass Silva 
  >>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 12:42 AM
  >>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk Occult Research of Besant and CWL - Recent observations by a scientist
  >>>>
  >>>>Theosophists or anyone for that matter must purify his bodies ready for the merge with atman. The merging can only occur when there is an adept supervising and as the old saying goes, many believe they are chosen, but few are picked.
  >>>>
  >>>>Cass
  >>>>
  >>>>>________________________________
  >>>>>From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@Xi_U3g597TnrX_HaQGSpHWIeyJKT9N9gMXukoLmnmGW-sMuRrM5IB0v84UDMNRfqq4WuWY-aCCFb2kxpvDVnPxkWsQ.yahoo.invalid>
  >>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011 9:04 PM
  >>>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk Occult Research of Besant and CWL - Recent observations by a scientist
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> 
  >>>>>
  >>>>>According to Shailendar Agarwal, a Theosophist: "The goal of every Theosophist is to merge with the atman. Theosophists like J Krishnamurthi and others were proven occultists but they never claimed to be so. Occultism comes into play when a Theosophist is in the process of purifying himself. Only certain Theosophists like Besant had the power to record the observations of experiments with occultism."
  >>>>>
  >>>>>M. Sufilight says:
  >>>>>I wonder whether the Theosophical Society is a sect or non-sectarian?
  >>>>>Or whether it was a sect or non-sectarian?
  >>>>>
  >>>>>M. Sufilight
  >>>>>
  >>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
  >>>>>From: MKR 
  >>>>>To: theos-talk 
  >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 5:37 AM
  >>>>>Subject: theos-talk Occult Research of Besant and CWL - Recent observations by a scientist
  >>>>>
  >>>>>Besant and CWL did occult research on atom and their observations were
  >>>>>published in 1908. While there was a lot of questions about them, here is a
  >>>>>recent article by a well known Indian Scientist which appeared in an Indian
  >>>>>Newspaper. Here are two quotes:
  >>>>>
  >>>>>âAccording to M Srinivasan, former associate director of Bhabha Atomic
  >>>>>Research Centre, (BARC), "One important piece of work, which brings out the
  >>>>>extraordinary power of the human mind or consciousness in gaining 'direct
  >>>>>knowledge of reality,' as practised by the Indian sages was done by the
  >>>>>Theosophists Annie Besant and C W Leadbeater over a century ago. They
  >>>>>carried out clairvoyant investigations into the detailed structure of atoms
  >>>>>and nuclei.â
  >>>>>
  >>>>>âSrinivasan, a Theosophist, says, "Besant and Leadbeater have recorded that
  >>>>>an atom of the
  >>>>>smallest element Hydrogen comprised 18 UPAs while at the upper end, an atom
  >>>>>of the heaviest element Uranium comprised 4,267 UPAs. They clairvoyantly
  >>>>>discovered the existence of isotopes and published the atomic weight of all
  >>>>>the 92 naturally occurring elements and several of their isotopes correct
  >>>>>to the second decimal place." This was done five years before Aston
  >>>>>experimentally detected an isotope of Neon using his newly-invented
  >>>>>instrument or the mass spectrometer, and for which he was later awarded the
  >>>>>Nobel Prize. The observations of Besant and Leadbeater were published in
  >>>>>the first edition of the book, Occult Chemistry, in 1908.â
  >>>>>
  >>>>>Read the full article here:
  >>>>>
  >>>>><
  >>>>>http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/spirituality/science-of-spirituality/Direct-knowledge/articleshow/10725961.cms
  >>>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>>MKR
  >>>>>
  >>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >>>>>
  >>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>> 
  >>>>>
  >>>>>
  >>>>
  >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >>>>
  >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>> 
  >>>>
  >>>>
  >>>
  >>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >>>
  >>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> 
  >>>
  >>>
  >>
  >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >>
  >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >>
  >>
  >> 
  >>
  >>
  >
  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  > 
  >
  >

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]