Theos-Talk Archives (October 2011 Message tt00178)

JPC: Morton, I agree there is no disagreement from my view either. Members of the TS or AS or MF are free individually to work in politics or social reform as they see necessary. The Theosophical society should stand for equal human rights, world peace, sharing and the rejection of all political and economic greed today on a world level. Just as the Lucis Trust stands for the same principles, also of brotherhood and compassion and supports the United Nations work towards this end. 
 
JC Wrote: HPB makes clear that only "as a society it takes absolutely no part in any national or party politics"
 
> I think that the society could add great benefit to humanity when it stands for equal human rights, world peace, sharing and the rejection of all political and economic greed today on a world level... I think this is a critical point to bear in mind regarding the many social questions of today. Each member is free to work as individuals in political fields as they see necessary. There is a great difference between the Theosophical society entering party politics national or local on one side or the other side, or of standing for the principles which it holds dear in altruism, social reform or against world economic corruption. The latter stands for the good of the whole. One sees a clear distinction here and it are worthy of being thought out. In so doing, we do not stand aloof. JPC. 
 
"ENQUIRER. But surely the T. S. does not stand altogether aloof from the social questions which are now so fast coming to the front? 
THEOSOPHIST. The very principles of the T. S. are a proof that it does not -- or, rather, that most of its members do not -- so stand aloof." 

THEOSOPHIST. No one person and no society can lay down a hard-and-fast rule in this respect.
 
THEOSOPHIST. Every Theosophist, therefore, is bound to do his utmost to help on, by all the means in his power, every wise and well-considered social effort which has for its object the amelioration of the condition of the poor. Such efforts should be made with a view to their ultimate social emancipation, or the development of the sense of duty in those who now so often neglect it in nearly every relation of life.

 
 

> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> From: global-theosophy@s84SQYimJVy5tp2BniolqFQbWVWlfQIjgobgRVsx_n1ryv-_TlBJIYq-mzHM4v_bBgytbwdqHDbt33UP0dTyegg6fg.yahoo.invalid
> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 22:41:13 +0100
> Subject: Re: [?? Probable Spam] theos-talk More on the New World Order
> 
> Dear Jeremy and friends
> 
> MY views are:
> 
> I see no diasgreement. H. P. Blavatsky's words in the quote by Micahel was on behalf of the Society, not on behalf of the members.
> 
> 
> If you read more in the Key to Theosophy you will reach a better understanding of it all:
> "ENQUIRER. But what do you mean by "true efforts"? Each social reformer has his own panacea, and each believes his to be the one and only thing which can improve and save humanity?
> 
> THEOSOPHIST. Perfectly true, and this is the real reason why so little satisfactory social work is accomplished. In most of these panaceas there is no really guiding principle, and there is certainly no one principle which connects them all. Valuable time and energy are thus wasted; for men, instead of co-operating, strive one against the other, often, it is to be feared, for the sake of fame and reward rather than for the great cause which they profess to have at heart, and which should be supreme in their lives.
> 
> ENQUIRER. How, then, should Theosophical principles be applied so that social co-operation may be promoted and true efforts for social amelioration be carried on?
> 
> THEOSOPHIST. Let me briefly remind you what these principles are - universal Unity and Causation; Human Solidarity; the Law of Karma; Re-incarnation. These are the four links of the golden chain which should bind humanity into one family, one universal Brotherhood.
> 
> ENQUIRER. How?
> 
> THEOSOPHIST. In the present state of society, especially in so-called civilized countries, we are continually brought face to face with the fact that large numbers of people are suffering from misery, poverty and disease. Their physical condition is wretched, and their mental and spiritual faculties are often almost dormant. On the other hand, many persons at the opposite end of the social scale are leading lives of careless indifference, material luxury, and selfish indulgence. Neither of these forms of existence is mere chance. Both are the effects of the conditions which surround those who are subject to them, and the neglect of social duty on the one side is most closely connected with the stunted and arrested development on the other. In sociology, as in all branches of true science, the law of universal causation holds good. But this causation necessarily implies, as its logical outcome, that human solidarity on which Theosophy so strongly insists. If the action of one reacts on the lives of all, and this is the true scientific idea, then it is only by all men becoming brothers and all women sisters, and by all practising in their daily lives true brotherhood and true sisterhood, that the real human solidarity, which lies at the root of the elevation of the race, can ever be attained. It is this action and interaction, this true brotherhood and sisterhood, in which each shall live for all and all for each, which is one of the fundamental Theosophical principles that every Theosophist should be bound, not only to teach, but to carry out in his or her individual life.
> 
> ENQUIRER. All this is very well as a general principle, but how would you apply it in a concrete way?
> 
> THEOSOPHIST. Look for a moment at what you would call the concrete facts of human society. Contrast the lives not only of the masses of the people, but of many of those who are called the middle and upper classes, with what they might be under healthier and nobler conditions, where justice, kindness, and love were paramount, instead of the selfishness, indifference, and brutality which now too often seem to reign supreme. All good and evil things in humanity have their roots in human character, and this character is, and has been, conditioned by the endless chain of cause and effect. But this conditioning applies to the future as well as to the present and the past. Selfishness, indifference, and brutality can never be the normal state of the race¯to believe so would be to despair of humanity¯and that no Theosophist can do. Progress can be attained, and only attained, by the development of the nobler qualities. Now, true evolution teaches us that by altering the surroundings of the organism we can alter and improve the organism; and in the strictest sense this is true with regard to man. Every Theosophist, therefore, is bound to do his utmost to help on, by all the means in his power, every wise and well-considered social effort which has for its object the amelioration of the condition of the poor. Such efforts should be made with a view to their ultimate social emancipation, or the development of the sense of duty in those who now so often neglect it in nearly every relation of life.
> 
> ENQUIRER. Agreed. But who is to decide whether social efforts are wise or unwise?
> 
> THEOSOPHIST. No one person and no society can lay down a hard-and-fast rule in this respect. Much must necessarily be left to the individual judgment."
> http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/aKEY.htm
> 
> 
> And that is where the real problem is resting. 
> That is as the last sentence says: "No one person and no society can lay down a hard-and-fast rule in this respect. Much must necessarily be left to the individual judgment:"
> 
> Is it not?
> 
> 
> M. Sufilight
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Jeremy Condick 
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 9:37 PM
> Subject: RE: [?? Probable Spam] theos-talk More on the New World Order
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > From: libertyson11@QSLdtrOZxMEsO0Hx-GyKnUXcn47RbuLwZhubK7sS7CV05rdImspE3B5sR_Kx-4kacwDk9APAMZs65VD6eA.yahoo.invalid
> > Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 09:55:54 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [?? Probable Spam] theos-talk More on the New World Order
> > 
> > H. P. Blavatsky wrote about the Theosophical Society:
> > "ENQUIRER. Do you take any part in politics?
> > 
> > THEOSOPHIST. As a Society, we carefully avoid them, for the reasons 
> > given below. To seek to achieve political reforms before we have 
> > effected a reform in human nature, is like putting new wine into old 
> > bottles. Make men feel and recognise in their innermost hearts what is 
> > their real, true duty to all men, and every old abuse of power, every 
> > iniquitous law in the national policy, based on human, social or 
> > political selfishness, will disappear of itself. Foolish is the gardener
> > who seeks to weed his flower-bed of poisonous plants by cutting them 
> > off from the surface of the soil, instead of tearing them out by the 
> > roots. No lasting political reform can be ever achieved with the same 
> > selfish men at the head of affairs as of old. "
> > ("The Key to Theosophy", 2ed., 1890 - p. 231)
> > http://www.phx- ult-lodge. org/aKEY. htm
> > 
> > So let us not be foolish. Do you not agree?
> 
> > *** I do not agree in the slightest. This is absurd. To wait until all men are perfect before we stand for our rights and a just society is a pathetic philosophy and utterly impractical on the face of it.
> > 
> > 
> > The utterly corrupt people at head of banking and many mega-corporations will most likely never change. 
> > 
> > 
> > To sit still while they rape the earth and the minds of the young and enslave the world in perpetual fraudulent debt is amoral in the extreme. 
> 
> I completely agree with your thoughts here stated. Let us remind ourselves of this... "as individuals, each is left perfectly free to follow out his or her particular line of political thought and action, so long as this does not conflict with Theosophical principles or hurt the Theosophical Society." The Key to Theosophy. HPB. 
> 
> Individuals, as individuals are free, always, to work or lobby for political and social reform. Your thoughts are valid and potent today and certainly resonate with the times. HPB makes clear that only "as a society it takes absolutely no part in any national or party politics" and we must emphasis the meaning here that the society took no part in national or party politics, as a society. I think that the society could add great benefit to humanity when it stands for equal human rights, world peace, sharing and the rejection of all political and economic greed today on a world level. 
> 
> I think this is a critical point to bear in mind regarding the many social questions of today. Each member is free to work as individuals in political fields as they see necessary. There is a great difference between the Theosophical society entering party politics national or local on one side or the other side, or of standing for the principles which it holds dear in altruism, social reform or against world economic corruption. The latter stands for the good of the whole. One sees a clear distinction here and it are worthy of being thought out. In so doing, we do not stand aloof. JPC. 
> 
> "ENQUIRER. But surely the T. S. does not stand altogether aloof from the social questions which are now so fast coming to the front? 
> THEOSOPHIST. The very principles of the T. S. are a proof that it does not -- or, rather, that most of its members do not -- so stand aloof." 
 		 	   		  

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