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Re: theos-talk the Christian Saviour, like Krishna

Oct 29, 2011 07:48 AM
by M. Sufilight


Dear Duane

My views are:

This is post no. 2 to the your below post or email.

I do appreciate your answer. And it give me the opportunity to ask you a few questions, which you did not answer about a year ago.
I am writing the below so to be of service to us all, and so to promote altruism.


Duane quoted Alice A. Bailey:
"The effect of this radiation or magnetic aura is now so extensive that we need no longer talk in terms of bringing in the kingdom or of its manifestation on Earth. It is already manifesting, and its aura is co-mingled with the mental, astral and etheric auras of mankind. Recognition only is required, but (and this is a factor to be noted) recognition is being withheld until the kingdom of souls can be safeguarded from the narrow claims of any church, religion or organization; many will claim (as they have ever done) that admittance into the Kingdom of God is to be found through their particular reparative group. The Kingdom of God is not Christian, or Buddhist, or to be found focused in any world religion or esoteric organization. It is simply and solely what it claims to be: a vast and integrated group of soul-infused persons, radiating [Page 408] love and spiritual intention, motivated by goodwill...â


M. Sufilight says:
A beautiful quote.

But, was it manifesting? Or has it not always manifested through the ages? And has the claimed recognition not always been required?
Do you think we human being has changed much - psychologically speaking - during the latest 50 years or so?
Are we not as I said in a recent quote by Krishnamurti "have we changed deeply? Aren't we very primitive, barbarous? So I am asking if you will consider whether there is psychological evolution at all? I question it. Personally, to the speaker, there is no psychological evolution: there is only the ending of sorrow, of pain, anxiety, loneliness, despair and all that. Man has lived with it for a million years. And if we rely on time, which is thought - time and thought go together - if we rely on evolution then another thousand years or more, and we will still be barbarous."

Another question to consider: Why does the Lucis Trust themselves then keep promoting a Sectarian and political stance, while claiming to be non-sectarian and non-political? Especially when the The Kingdom of God is not to be found in a World Religion - and certainly not a sectarian one or a political one (supporting the United Nations)!
It simply does not add up Duane. Do you not see it?

The Psychological Key on Subtle Mind Control is entirely missing within the heart of the Lucis Trust activities. And this cannot be denied - or - else they are doing a great effort of concealing it to the public! 
Do you not see it? Duane?

___
I suggest reading or familiarizing oneself with the science on Subtle Mind Control. Steve Hassan's book "Combatting Cult Mind Control", 1988 and William Sargant's "Battle for the Mind", 1957 or Denise Winn "The Manipulated Mind" (printed by Octagon Press, founded by Idries Shah), might be good to begin with. Within esoteric teachings of the East, we do not find much officially available in the English languÃge. I do however know that there are certain Buddhistic scriptures on the subject, and, that they are related to the doctrines on Abhidamma. The teachings on psychological Time-transcendence seem to be on the raise. Eckhart Tolle, and also the Dalai Lama seem to be interested in this subject. And it is interesting to note, that the Dalai Lama has resigned from his political office lately. This teaching might also be concealed in the esoteric version of the Kalachakra Tantra.
(Maybe this book will be helpful although I have not read it, only some of the pages: Gen Lamrimpa and B. Allan Wallace Transcending Time, an Explanation of the Kalachakra Six-Session Guru Yoga --- Googlebooks do has a version online, although it might not seem to be the case. Look for it is there for all to read. - See page 40. This is almost the same as Eckhart Tolle is repeatedly saying in his lectures.)


Duane wrote:
"For all of the endless debates about Bailey vs. HPB, Bailey clearly puts the idea of the Bodhisattva or Cosmic Christ as an impersonal deity or power that expresses both intelligence and Love. In fact, if you fully comprehend the thrust of Alice Baileyâs work, you will see that the study of Fohat-Will or the First Ray of abstraction and power was at the very top of the list in the order of importance of all the subjects that he (DK) was trying to convey to humanity.  A Treatise on Cosmic Fire is a manual for those advanced disciples in preparation for initiation along the First Ray line hence there is a  natural correlation between Cosmic Fire and the Secret Doctrine and it is not uncommon to see both treatise used as resource material simultaneously by advanced groups. Most students of theosophy who think they are advanced unfortunately do not study either treatise. 
The aspirant and probationers are baffled by the depth and profundity of both treatises but have not developed the wisdom to remain silent until they know more. True disciples recognize the immense opportunity that the works of HPB and AAB offer and begin creating analogies, correspondences and links between the two."

M. Sufilight says:
The debates are endless as long as recognition is not reached. I think that I have during the last two years reached a better understanding on why I have rejected the Alice A. Bailey books as primary and Lucis Trust as non-sectarian. I am now better able to tell precisely what I consider to be the problems with the Alice A. Bailey books and their Chrisitanized content. And also why Lucis Trust to me is sectarian and political even when they claim to be the opposite. --- What I experience is that the science on Subtle Mind Control is not understood by a wide range of Alice A. Bailey followers - and - to lack this vital - and even scientific - Psychological Key year 2011 - is simply not adding up as far as I am concerned. 

The latest development I sense is that more and more Alice A. Bailey followers now - openly - admit that the Alice A. Bailey books was given - in a more down to earth version while ignoring the words by Blavatsky:  "nothing is more dangerous to Esoteric Truth than the garbled and distorted versions disfigured to suit the prejudices and tastes of men in general."  (E.S.T.S. Instruction No. I --- http://blavatskyarchives.com/hpbes1extract.htm) And also the admissions that Alice A. Bailey's own books - especially - contain distorted outlet compared to the esoteric teachings. But the books written in collaboration with the one AAB called Master D.K. also contain quite anumber of distortions as I see it. So to sidetrack it all like som Alice A. Bailey followers do, by saying that it only was in AAB's own books distortions crept in, is not quite enough as I see it.  - However I find these admissions to be an improvement on their part. --- I am looking forward to that they also recognize that the science of Psychology and especially the sceince on Subtle Mind Control should be given their RIGHTFUL PLACES - in the present times we have year 2011. And that the same with science of Mindfulness within Psychology - and - if possible the science on Time-Transendence which I referred to in the above, and which is known to the Gelugpa Buddhists and other Buddhists, as well as one of the most influential western teacher today, Eckhart Tolle. (Eckhart Tolle, however fail as I see it to emphasise the science on Subtle Mind Control adequately enough. - But as I also said: "The use of ideas, FOR INSTANCE BOOKS and WRITTEN MATERIAL of ALL sorts is - perhaps sometimes primarily - forwarded so to shape a man or woman morally speaking, not necessarily to support a so-called system - which is viewed in a limited manner." - That also include lectures etc. etc.) - I find this to be a better Psychological Key than the ones found in A Treatise on Cosmic Fire and the 5 volumes on Esoteric Psychology written by Alice A. Bailey. --- But we forget, that wr are talking about Lucis Trust an esoteric organisation who claim to be based on Blavatsky's esoteric section, and not an non-sectarian and non-political one like the Theosophical Society as given in 1875-1891.

----
ADVANCED or CHRISTIANIZED?
What you call - advanced - with regard to A Treatise on Cosmic Fire, I call a distorted systemtized, copied and reformulated version of the Secret Doctrine which provoke the intellect anf not the intuition like the Secret Doctrine was written with the aim for (See SD, Vol. I, p. xlvi and 21), which uses Christian keys, a mono-cultural psychological key. And you said yourself that it perhaps was written with a Christian audience in mind. --- There are not much new in the book A Treatise on Cosmic Fire, which was not already in print when it was written, as far as I can tell. This can be proven by careful comparison of texts. This book's use of the Christian trinity would make any honest and true Mahatma turn in his Devavhanic grave if you ask me. And no Mahatma with a real conscience would write the Psychological Key to the Secret Doctrine  (claimed to be A Treatise on Cosmic Fire) using several references to the THIRD volume of the Secret Doctrine published by Annie Besant in 1897, using Blavatsky's name. (Blavatsky died in 1891.) Especially when we know that the Secret Doctrine contain thousands of alterations performed by Annie Besant herself. And knowing that Annie besant was not clairvoyant at the time, or barely clairvoyant at the time, I find such a construction by Alice A. Bailey or a claimed Master to be quite unhealthy. (See the following by Daniel Caldwell: "The Myth of the "Missing" Third Volume of
The Secret Doctrine"  http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/sdiiipt1.htm ) And I hear that several of the footnotes in the book A Treatise on Cosmic Fire was missing in the first edition or editions. (Does anyone have additional info on this?)
Do you disagree on all the above in this paragraph Duane?



ABOUT BEING BAFFLED
Some might be baffled, and others might not be baffled by the Sectarian and Political stance given by Lucis Trust and most later off-shoot groups emanationg from the mother-organisation. A political stance supported in the Alice A. Bailey books - and - with a lack of info on - and - lack support for the Psychological Key to Subtle Mind Control, and, the Key on the Psychological Minfulness teachings on Time-Transcendence within the esoteric Buddhistic teachings. We only hear that the Christian religion is the religion of religions (!) and other kinds of distortions like the following quote.

.Alice A. Bailey said:
"The trained intuitive or disciple lives ever the dual life of mundane activity and of intense and simultaneous spiritual reflection. This will be the outstanding characteristic of the Western disciple in contradistinction to the Eastern disciple who escapes from life into the silent places and away from the pressures of daily living and constant contact with others. The task of the Western disciple is much harder, but that which he will prove to himself and to the world as a whole will be still higher. 

This is to be expected if the evolutionary process means anything. The Western races must move forward into spiritual supremacy, without obliterating the Eastern contribution, and the functioning of the Law of Rebirth holds the clue to this and demonstrates this necessity. The [180] tide of life moves from East to West as moves the sun, and those who in past centuries struck the note of Eastern mysticism must strike and are now striking the note of Western occultism."
(Glamor a World Problem, p. 179-180)
http://www.light-weaver.com/links/kingsgarden.books.htm

M. Sufilight says:
Western Sumpremacy??? 
I will reject it on the spot! There is only Supremacy within each human being!
There must be limits to the allowance of the continous distortions and self-contradiction in the Alice A. Bailey books.
If not, we open the door to the same euphemistic methods used by the Catholic Church. Som in fact claim that the LUcis Trust with its - euphemistic - clinging to the Alice A. Bailey books contain in them quite good possibilities and a framework for creating a sect along the lines of the Jesuit order founded by Ignatius Loyola. In a distorted manner so to make my point clear I am saying, that all the self-contraditions and distortions in the Alice A. Bailey books could be viewed like this: What is white is black, and black is white, if the Vicar (Master DK?) in the Church of Christ says so.

Now I am not saying that Lucis Trust or any Alice A. Bailey group are following the Jesuits sinister activities. But Lucis Trust are clearly operating in a manner, which can be called euphemistic and having a Jesuit tendency in it. The framework it is build upon looks more like a sectarian one with heavy Christian-like tendencies on Western supremacy, than an esoteric multi-cultural and non-sectarian one, if you ask me.

Try to contrast these two videos:
Eckhart Tolle - The Time is Now (An half hour or so should be enough)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xD4SXzRf7U

World Invocation Day 2011 
(by Lucis Trust)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkQvXEYeJLA&feature=relmfu

Please read this carefully:
People are always looking for an Avatar or a Saviour; that does not mean that
this is the time for an Avatar or a Christ Saviour. The problems that an Avatar or a Saviour would be
able to resolve have not been identified. Nor does the clamor mean
that those who cry out are suitable followers. Most of the people who
demand an Avatar or a Christ Saviour seem to have some baby's idea of what an Avatar or a Saviour
should do. The idea that an Avatar or a Christ Saviour will walk in and we will all
recognize him, her or it (named a "hime" by AAB followers and not "it") and follow this being and everybody will be happy strikes me
as a strangely immature atavism. Most of these people, I believe,
want not an Avatar or a Christ Saviour but excitement. I doubt that those who cry the
loudest would obey an Avatar or a Christ Saviour if there was one. Talk is cheap, and a
lot of the talk comes from millions of beginner seekers after truth and wisdom.
(Maybe the leaders at various esoteric groups would be kind to consider the above words. Okay?)


All the above are of course just my views. I do not claim myself infallible as a "pope" or similar
I do hope that at least some of it will be useful for something altruistic and good.



M. Sufilight 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Duane Carpenter 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 11:54 AM
  Subject: Re: theos-talk the Christian Saviour, like Krishna


    
  One of the greatest stumbling blocks to many who have studied HPBâs work is what they see as Alice Bailey personalizing the idea of Christ. If you take into account that DK himself stated that he deliberately gave the ancient wisdom teachings a Christianized emphasesfor a broader audience here in the west it will explain much. Did AAB fuse Esoteric Christianity with Esoteric Buddhism? This audacious undertaking could only be done by a Master of the Wisdom who could bypass the dogmas and historical baggage both religions bring and see the  same esoteric truths that are be found in all  religious traditions and  emanating from the same One Source of spiritual life. For those theosophical students who have been told by erroneous sources that AAB has overly personified the principal of Love or Christ please read carefully the next passage and quote by AAB.
  âThere have always been those in every land who developed and expressed the Christ consciousness; this is loving understanding and intelligent, living service, no matter by what words or terminology they expressed the tremendous spiritual event of which they were aware. â 
  Today, as a result of a spiritual awakening which dates from 1625 A.D., and which laid the emphasis upon a wider, general education and upon a revolt from the imposition of clerical authority, the radiation from the world of souls has greatly intensified and the Kingdom of God is becoming a corporate part of the outer world expression, and this for the first time in the long, long history of humanity.
  The effect of this radiation or magnetic aura is now so extensive that we need no longer talk in terms of bringing in the kingdom or of its manifestation on Earth. It is already manifesting, and its aura is co-mingled with the mental, astral and etheric auras of mankind. Recognition only is required, but (and this is a factor to be noted) recognition is being withheld until the kingdom of souls can be safeguarded from the narrow claims of any church, religion or organization; many will claim (as they have ever done) that admittance into the Kingdom of God is to be found through their particular reparative group. The Kingdom of God is not Christian, or Buddhist, or to be found focused in any world religion or esoteric organization. It is simply and solely what it claims to be: a vast and integrated group of soul-infused persons, radiating [Page 408] love and spiritual intention, motivated by goodwill...â
   For all of the endless debates about Bailey vs. HPB, Bailey clearly puts the idea of the Bodhisattva or Cosmic Christ as an impersonal deity or power that expresses both intelligence and Love. In fact, if you fully comprehend the thrust of Alice Baileyâs work, you will see that the study of Fohat-Will or the First Ray of abstraction and power was at the very top of the list in the order of importance of all the subjects that he (DK) was trying to convey to humanity.  A Treatise on Cosmic Fire is a manual for those advanced disciples in preparation for initiation along the First Ray line hence there is a  natural correlation between Cosmic Fire and the Secret Doctrine and it is not uncommon to see both treatise used as resource material simultaneously by advanced groups. Most students of theosophy who think they are advanced unfortunately do not study either treatise. 
  The aspirant and probationers are baffled by the depth and profundity of both treatises but have not developed the wisdom to remain silent until they know more. True disciples recognize the immense opportunity that the works of HPB and AAB offer and begin creating analogies, correspondences and links between the two. 
  Those theosophist who claim each individual person must do their own inner work and no one can come to save them are entirly correct.
  The question I have for my reader is it possible that an avatar or master along any one of the 7 Rays could work on both levels simultaniously, both as an individual person who is simultaniously a Cosmic Principal?. If this is true  might it exsplain some of the apparent inconsitencies and paradoxes we are discussing here? These two concepts may not be mutual exclusive but a part of One Life which seen in all its composite parts - simultaniously,  not an easy thing to recognize or register if the intuition is not highly developed.
  Excerpts from HPB vs AAB by Duane Carpenter
  See the entire commentary attached :
   

  From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@saXgBSKjvdEggVzilaZgwrQuFnDpUUnFL16EyXWgW8XYsezxt3o8bijvltRlgpNJD-hnK4lpHeb3QZIkVH_8doLGqA.yahoo.invalid>
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 9:07 PM
  Subject: Re: theos-talk the Christian Saviour, like Krishna

    
  Did she actually - quote - heavily fromn it? How heavily?
  I find that she at various places correct misleading content in it. Did she not?

  M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Augoeides-222@_1EegLjnkiXbxpWsdhBdOQDRNQ7H8wF1ugOxEFuDAzgnwmbkfx9NGo3WGYqxhZPk4ORZ8yP2I4bO3hTNbgH6-6JKlDQ.yahoo.invalid 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 2:37 AM
  Subject: Re: theos-talk the Christian Saviour, like Krishna

  Morten, 

  Also the Anaclypsis is also a work that Blavatsky heavily qoutes from and listed as a "Q" resource, bot h the Anaclypsis and The World Sixteen Crucified Saviors are free downloads on Google Books. 

  John 

  ----- Original Message -----

  From: "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@saXgBSKjvdEggVzilaZgwrQuFnDpUUnFL16EyXWgW8XYsezxt3o8bijvltRlgpNJD-hnK4lpHeb3QZIkVH_8doLGqA.yahoo.invalid> 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 4:24:09 PM 
  Subject: Re: theos-talk the Christian Saviour, like Krishna 

  The following might also be good to know about... 

  The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World%27s_Sixteen_Crucified_Saviors 

  M. Sufilight 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Augoeides-222@_1EegLjnkiXbxpWsdhBdOQDRNQ7H8wF1ugOxEFuDAzgnwmbkfx9NGo3WGYqxhZPk4ORZ8yP2I4bO3hTNbgH6-6JKlDQ.yahoo.invalid 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 12:52 AM 
  Subject: Re: theos-talk the Christian Saviour, like Krishna 

  Jeremy and all, 

  A certain book that Blavatsky also mentioned "The Worlds Sixteen Crucified Saviors or Christianity before Christ" by Kersey Graves 1879, Boston: Colby and Rich Publishers, No. 9 Montgomery Place, 384 pages. it is a survey of ancient history of religion of cultures dessertates upon the "Saviour" fi gures of pre-christion history. Madame Blavastky mentions as a "Q" source respective to her readings. 

  John 

  ----- Original Message ----- 

  From: "Jeremy Condick" < jpcondick2011@v69oLz2iFI_oL-1WoHtfx6qX43796hQ0owm1Oi2V4Xd8lNmcSGVfmF6jFhKUCmln7oo2CU1o0cT414gnA6m8-LjI.yahoo.invalid > 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 2:31:15 PM 
  Subject: theos-talk the Christian Saviour, like Krishna 

  HPB first key work proclaimed the Christ the Christian saviour and Christos, AAB second key work expanded somewhat, the Christ which is a rank of office of the head of hierarchy, and not the so called Christian son of a personal god, Jehovah like, of the church fathers so worshiped and personalised by the Roman Catholics also. This is often greatly misunderstood. But it is part of our teachings. JPC. 

  "The personal God of orthodox Theism perceives, thinks, and is affected by emotion; he repents and feels "fierce anger." SD1 2. 

  "Christian theology has evolved its self-created human and personal God" SD1 613. 

  "The Church enforces belief in a personal god and a personal devil, while Occultism shows the fallacy of such a belief." SD2 475. 

  "This Entity, Whom we call the solar Logos, is in no sense the same as the personal God of the Christian, who is no more nor less than man himself, expanded into a being of awful power, and subject to the virtues and vices of man himself." TCF 239. 

  "On the other hand, regarded in the light of the LOGOS, the Christian Saviour, like Krishna, whether as man or logos, may be said to have saved those who believed in the secret teachings from "eternal death," to have conquered the Kingdom of Darkness, or Hell, as every Initiate does. This in the human, terrestrial form of the Initiates, and also because the logos is Christos, that principle of our inner nature which develops in us into the Spiritual Ego -- the Higher-Self -- being formed of the indissoluble union of Buddhi (the sixth) and the spiritual efflorescence of Manas" SD2 230. 

  "those whom the Christian Saviour addressed as ïthe generation of vipers". CW X 

  "Like Buddha and Jesus, Apollonius was the uncompromising enemy of all outward show of piety, all display of useless religious ceremonies and hypocrisy. If, like the Christian Saviour, the sage of Tyana had by preference sought the companionship of the poor and humble"... IU2 341. 

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