Theos-Talk Archives (October 2011 Message tt00077)

Dear Duane and friends

My views are:

Thanks Duane.
It is always interesting to read what Jeremy thinks. I find him to be a known listener when people raise wellmeant criticism of the AAB ideas. And I like that. It is different with those more or less haughty 1st ray personalities who disallow a non-sectarian comparative studying and an honest search for the truth of the matter.

But Jeremy omits the problematic issues I have exchanged with you about, does he not? Would you ask him at the forum. Or are there questions and mysteries which are not allowed to be revealed in such groups?

I dare not attempt to become a member - since Michael Robbins find it most compassionate to avoid communicating with me and have told me so more or less. And perhaps it is the best. I think - that First ray inclined persons have a blind spot to criticism - and they seldom allow comparative studying to take place on an equal footing in their group work. They have therefore a sectarian tendency - which some of them are unware of. This is how I see it, although I might be wrong.
And since the Morya Federation claims that the Alice A. Bailey books for some strange reason NEED to be the PRIMARY doctrines to be palmed of from a "better-knowing pedestal" (?), I disagre on the activity - as leading to altruism without creating conditioned minds. (Try for instance to read the books "Combatting Cult Mind Control" by Steve Hassan or other books on the same. Even the down-earth psychologist and the earthly science of psychology know about these simple things.)

And we wonder why such a Psychological Key is need by the Morya Federation, do we not?

Are the Constitution and Rules of the Morya Federation available to the public - or are they part of a secret activity not to be revealed?
Would you throw a link here at the forum if you have access to them? If not why not?

_________________


LUCIS TRUST says it is non-sectarian?
Now the meek and humble Alice A. Bailey followers sit and sing their Great Invocation so to induce the Masters and Christ to walk among men in -- bodily presence. I call this Immature Atavism and to lead people astray and away from altruism and self-reliance and have stated it several times. And it has nothing what so ever to do with a non-sectarian stance - which the Lucis Trust claim they have. This is important to understand and realise. Well according to my views.

LUCIS TRUST website says:
"The Arcane School is nonpolitical and nonsectarian. All are served."
http://www.lucistrust.org/en/about_us/lucis_trust

Indeed?
So there are no doctrines promoted on behalf of the members of this Organisations?
If there are, it is a sectarian body. I clearly think there are and I have shown it in the above. Just have a look at the website. The Great Invocation is one issue.

So there are no political views raised by Lucis Trust?
What about for instance the views given in the Newsletter no2. year 2003?
http://www.lucistrust.org/en/content/download/1252/13510/file/2003-3.pdf

What about the fact that Lucis Trust has "Consultative Status" with the United Nations?
And the Lucis Trust group "World Goodwill" has an NGO status to the United Nations has it not?

And the fact about many of the Alice A. Bailey off-shoot groups is - that they are very much interested in politics and promote political views on their websites and at their meetings. When one consider this fact - one will also have to consider the fact that Lucis Trust is only non-political according to their own words - but in reality we see something quite different happening as a consequence of this organisation. Do we not?

Lucis Trust and their Constitution and Rules 
And we do not see any Constitution and Rules displayed online by Lucis Trust on how they operate - and how a person get elected to the particular - chair - at the consultative meetings with the United Nations - do we?
This is, as I see it, creating an atmosphere with a secretive and dishonest smell in it.

But I do however agree upon - that when one honestly seek to promote altruism - one is at least doing something more useful than those in opposition to such an activity. I Suggest: Let us just be aware of the sectarian aspects and the possible use of subtle Mind Control in the various New Age groups Lucist Trust and similar included. When the Morya Federation and Lucis Trust are prepared to address these issue and the above raise by me, they will find me to be more interested in their activities. 
--- Do they think that the Masters are unaware of the science on subtle Mind Control - and sectarian versus non-sectarian activities - and the psychological facts on Classical Conditioning?
We do not see many Altruistic oriented groups these days promoting a claimed NON-Sectarian view seeking to alleviate the thought about the existence of a Mind do we? And the Masters if they exist do not say: Do not Mind, do not matter do they?

These are of course just my views. I might be in error, while I do not claim to be an infallible "pope" or similar.



M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Duane Carpenter 
  To: Theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:06 PM
  Subject: theos-talk Fw: [Lucis] Re: psychological key to the Secret Doctrine [resend]


    
  The following excerpts by Jeremy Condick give the serious student some interresting insights into the differances of the works of HPB, also DK via AAB's works
  Best Duane

  ----- Forwarded Message -----
  From: Jeremy Condick <jpcondick2011@tGZ7AHTtsX-Qkv3kYzaUpasB562r-JmnSnRkvwVpB4EP7GC2FJAL45xEYKJVbAvXspBM4FL_hl4aKzDWDV5yR0cE.yahoo.invalid>
  To: lucis@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 3:53 PM
  Subject: RE: [Lucis] Re: psychological key to the Secret Doctrine [resend]

    
  That which is given in the Secret Doctrine, and supplemented here by further details, will suffice for the investigations of students for another generation.  Each generation should produce those able to ascertain subjective fact for themselves; they will utilize that which is exoteric and known as stepping stones on the path to perfect knowledge.  They will know, and they will give out, and only the next cycle of fifty years after their work is accomplished will see the recognition by the many of the truth revealed by the few.  In the case of H. P. B. this is apparent.  On the tide of the present endeavour, the Secret Doctrine will be vindicated and her work justified.TCF 707.
   
  A Treatise on Cosmic Fire endeavored to give the psychological key to The Secret Doctrine and to interpret the underlying consciousness which the Beings (considered in The Secret Doctrine) express, so in A Treatise on the Seven Rays, I am carrying on the same idea and, at the same time, seeking to give the needed key to modern exoteric psychology and also some indications as to the astrological key to The Secret Doctrine to which H.P.B. refers.The Entities dealt with in her masterpiece of esoteric truth are here revealed as cosmic, solar and planetary influences evoking - in response to Their outpoured energy or vibratory activity - an awakening of consciousness in the form so that it becomes aligned to or closely related to Their Own. All revelations appear to emerge into the consciousness of the race in their lowest or most material form because the "ascent of knowledge towards wisdom" is always the key to progress, and, therefore, exoteric psychology
  and exoteric mundane astrology had to precede the revelation of their significance; the nature of the form had to be made apparent and man accustomed to it before the meaning behind the form could be revealed. EA 291. 
   
  In many ways today H.P.B.'s book The Secret Doctrine is out of date and its approach to the Ageless Wisdom has little or no appeal to the modern generation. But those of us who really studied it and arrived at some understanding of its inner significance have a basic appreciation of the truth that no other book seems to supply. H.P.B. said that the next interpretation of the Ageless Wisdom would be a psychological approach, and A Treatise on Cosmic Fire, which I published in 1925, is the psychological key to The Secret Doctrine. None of my books would have been possible had I not at one time made a very close study of The Secret Doctrine.UA 215. 
   
  Another revolutionary thing that the Tibetan did was when He dictated the contents of A Treatise on Cosmic Fire. In this book He gave what H.P.B. prophesied He would give, the psychological key to cosmic creation. H.P.B. stated that in the 20th century a disciple would come who would give information concerning the three fires with which The Secret Doctrine deals: electric fire, solar fire and fire by friction. This prophecy was fulfiled when A Treatise on Cosmic Fire was given out to the public.This book concerns the fire of pure spirit or life; the fire of the mind that vitalizes every atom of the solar system and creates the medium through which the Sons of God develop. It also concerns the fire of matter producing that attraction and repulsion which is the basic law of evolution, and holding forms together so as to provide vehicles for the evolving life and later, when they have served their purpose, repulsing those forms so that the evolving lives
  can move on their way to higher evolution. The true significance of this book will only be appreciated towards the close of this century. It is of a profundity and a depth of technical knowledge which lies beyond the understanding of the ordinary reader. It is also a bridging book because it takes certain basic, oriental ideas and phrases and introduces them to the occidental student, whilst at the same time it makes practical the sometimes vague, metaphysical concepts of the East.UA 237. 
   
  Letters on Occult Meditation followed next. These indicated a somewhat new approach to meditation, based not on devotion to the Masters but on a recognition of the soul in each person. This was succeeded by A Treatise on Cosmic Fire. This book was an expansion of the teaching given in The Secret Doctrine on the three fires - electric fire, solar fire and Are by friction - and it was an awaited sequence. It also presented the psychological key to The Secret Doctrine and is intended to offer study to disciples and initiates at the close of this century and the beginning of the next century, up until 2025 A.D.UA 246. DINA1 778. DK.
   
  In A Treatise on Cosmic Fire the Tibetan has given us what H. P. Blavatsky prophesied he would give, namely, the psychological key to the Cosmic Creation. H.P.B. stated that in the 20th century a disciple would come who would give the psychological key to her own monumental work The Secret Doctrine on which treatise the Tibetan worked with her; and Alice A. Bailey worked in complete recognitionof her own task in this sequence.
  Tunbridge Wells, December 1950. Foster Bailey. TCF viii.       
   
  I would remind you that there is an astrological key to The Secret Doctrine which cannot yet be given in completeness.  I can give you some hints and suggest some lines of approach, and these, if carried in the consciousness of the illumined astrologers, may enable one of them at a later date to discover that key and then - turning it on behalf of humanity - reveal the fourth great fundamental of the Ageless Wisdom of which three are already given in the Proem of The Secret Doctrine. EA 7.  
   
  Speaking of the keys to the Zodiacal mysteries as being almost lost to the world, it was remarked by the writer in "Isis Unveiled" some ten years ago that: "The said key must be turned seven times before the whole system is divulged. We will give it but one turn, and thereby allow the profane one glimpse into the mystery. Happy he, who understands the whole!"
   
  The same may be said of the whole Esoteric system. One turn of the key, and no more, was given in "Isis."Much more is explained in these volumes. In those days the writer hardly knew the language in which the work was written, and the disclosure of many things, freely spoken about now, was forbidden. In Century the Twentieth some disciple more informed, and far better fitted, may be sent by the Masters of Wisdom to give final and irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya;and that, like the once-mysterious sources of the Nile, the source of all religions and philosophies now known to the world has been for many ages forgotten and lost to men, but is at last found.
  Such a work as this has to be introduced with no simple Preface, but with a volume rather; one that would give facts, not mere disquisitions, since the SECRET DOCTRINE is not a treatise, or a series of vague theories, but contains all that can be given out to the world in this century. SD1 xxxviii INTRODUCTORY. 
  Starling,
   
  Some great thoughts there. Many thanks indeed. 
   

  * The "next century" to which the Tibetan refers is the one in which we now find ourselves--the 21st. 
  * "In Century the Twentieth some disciple more informed, and far better fitted, may be sent by the Masters of Wisdom to give final and irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya;" Yes it seems that HPB predicted the twentieth century for the appearence of the collaberation between Alice Bailey and the Tibetan DK. He then prophesised "Revelatory, emerging after 1975...to be given on a worldwide scale via the radio." This emergence it spoken of by AAB/DK and I cannot pull it together right now. But indications were spoken of as beginning 1966 and from 75 to 2000 was the twenty five year emergence period enabling another twenty five year period to 2025 which as mentioned is thezenith of one such hierarchical effort, beginning 1875. So this seems to be why the thrust of Initiation and teaching of disciples and the three phase emergence of the teachings coincide. Notice 1875 began with Isis and aslo DK informs of 1975 for the
  emergence of phase three. So dates concide with good cyclic reason as we know. 
  * The phrase "early in the century" likely means in the first 20-25 years (2000-2025) and almost certainly no later than the first 33 years. Since this is 2011, perhaps it is not too soon or too impolitic task ask:

  * if there is yet any indication of who this iniate is and, more importantly,
  * if there are yet any indications of how that teaching will differ from what we have been given thus far. 
  JC: Good questions Starling. But I am cautioned by the latter parts of the extract. "The remainder of this century, as I told you elsewhere (Destiny of the Nations, Page 106), must be dedicated to rebuilding the shrine of man's living". So a question remains. Are the times to turbulent for many reasons and would this delay somewhat an Initiate and their "revelatory" Treatise as phase three. Preparatory, intermediate and revelatory are very clear as to the type of dissertation and we have two phases already to compare so to speak. Revelatory means just that by comparison, first phase was the material knowledge of man or physiological dissertation of HPB, the intermediate TCF etc, bridging between one and three and the latter revelatory "science of the Initiates". I think there are some disciples working that assist the emergence but who an individual disciple may be that will work under the 'impression' of DK to produce the revelatory science of the
  Initiates is, I have no idea as yet. I do know there has been much turbulence in this field to say the very least. Much though, is happening on the world front with the arab spring and spread of democracy of types, and with the stand against outbalanced capitalism. So this fits with the latter parts of the prophecy, in my view. One thing though, as you note 2000 - 2025 I would have thought that the revelatory would come before 2025 to be in line with the zenith 2025 hierarchical thrust from 1875. This is a KEY time for humanity and Initiation in mass group form undertaken by Sanat Kumara. I would ideally have wished it to be between 2012 and 2020 for the benefit of Initiates whom TCF was written for. TCF was to conclude its hight of usefulness by 2025. So again we must factor at this date the third phase could theoretically begin with hopefully a much sounder planet by then? "Then and only then will it be possible"................. Notice in EXT below
  DK used the terms stage of the forerunner and preperatory, testing and 'intended to be revelatory in results. So we could argue that the prep time from HPB lead to the testing time of disciples and Initiates or stepping up again the aptitude to Initiation and with the intended revelatory period of the third phase we have spoken of. I hope I have conveyed this well enough. 

   
   I would have you remember that the teaching which I have given out has been intermediate in nature, just as that given by H.P.B., under my instruction, was preparatory. The teaching planned by the Hierarchy to precede and condition the New Age, the Aquarian Age, falls into three categories:
   
  1.  Preparatory, given 1875 - 1890...written down by H.P.B. 
  2.  Intermediate, given 1919 - 1949...written down by A.A.B. 
  3.  Revelatory, emerging after 1975...to be given on a worldwide scale via the radio. 
  In the next century and early in the century an initiate will appear and will carry on this teaching. It will be under the same "impression," for my task is not yet completed and this series of bridging treatises between the material knowledge of man and the science of the initiates has still another phase to run. The remainder of this century, as I told you elsewhere (Destiny of the Nations, Page 106), must be dedicated to rebuilding the shrine of man's living, to reconstructing the form of humanity's life, to reconstituting the new civilization upon the foundations of the old, and to the reorganizing of the structures of world thought, world politics, plus the redistribution of the world's resources in conformity to divine purpose. Then and only then will it be possible to carry the revelation further. RI 255.
   
  "Thus a great and new movement is proceeding and a tremendously increased interplay and interaction is taking place. This will go on until A.D. 2025. During the years intervening between now and then very great changes will be seen taking place, and at the great General Assembly of the Hierarchy - held as usual every century - in 2025 the date in all probability will be set for the first stage of the externalization of the Hierarchy. The present cycle (from now until that date) is called technically "The Stage of the Forerunner". It is preparatory in nature, testing in its methods, and intended to be revelatory in its techniques and results. You can see therefore that Chohans, Masters, initiates, world disciples, disciples and aspirants affiliated with the Hierarchy are all at this time passing through a cycle of great activity." EXT 530.

  To: lucis@yahoogroups.com
  From: starlingdavidhunter@2HeT6tPZwJS1mp-o7mUmqTm8r_X8LXBnCyxqt_KJ7JVwx4cV1_I1Q9SkAajiykfD-NCBpXoOBkF0SUzeMlDjatvKkmvOxgTK.yahoo.invalid
  Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:29:54 +0000
  Subject: [Lucis] Re: psychological key to the Secret Doctrine [resend]

  Note: I sent the last message prematurely...it should have read as follows...
  Jeremy, thanks for this quotation. I've looked at it many times in the last several years.  A few points for us to all consider:

  * The "next century" to which the Tibetan refers is the one in which we now find ourselves--the 21st. 
  * The phrase "early in the century" likely means in the first 20-25 years (2000-2025) and almost certainly no later than the first 33 years. Since this is 2011, perhaps it is not too soon or too impolitic task ask:

  * if there is yet any indication of who this iniate is and, more importantly,
  * if there are yet any indications of how that teaching will differ from what we have been given thus far.
  thoughtfully
  Starling
   
   

  --- In lucis@yahoogroups.com, "starlingdavidhunter" <starlingdavidhunter@...> wrote:
  >
  > 
  > "In the next century and early in the century an initiate will appear
  > and will carry on this teaching. It will be under the same "impression,"
  > for my task is not yet completed and this series of bridging treatises
  > between the material knowledge of man and the science of the initiates
  > has still another phase to run. "
  > 

  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > --- In lucis@yahoogroups.com, Jeremy Condick jpcondick2011@ wrote:
  > >
  > >
  > > I would have you remember that the teaching which I have given out has
  > been intermediate in nature, just as that given by H.P.B., under my
  > instruction, was preparatory. The teaching planned by the Hierarchy to
  > precede and condition the New Age, the Aquarian Age, falls into three
  > categories:
  > >
  > > 1. Preparatory, given 1875 - 1890...written down by H.P.B.
  > > 2. Intermediate, given 1919 - 1949...written down by A.A.B.
  > > 3. Revelatory, emerging after 1975...to be given on a worldwide scale
  > via the radio.
  > > In the next century and early in the century an initiate will appear
  > and will carry on this teaching. It will be under the same "impression,"
  > for my task is not yet completed and this series of bridging treatises
  > between the material knowledge of man and the science of the initiates
  > has still another phase to run. The remainder of this century, as I told
  > you elsewhere (Destiny of the Nations, Page 106), must be dedicated to
  > rebuilding the shrine of man's living, to reconstructing the form of
  > humanity's life, to reconstituting the new civilization upon the
  > foundations of the old, and to the reorganizing of the structures of
  > world thought, world politics, plus the redistribution of the world's
  > resources in conformity to divine purpose. Then and only then will it be
  > possible to carry the revelation further. RI 255.
  >

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