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Re: theos-talk Understanding the Theosophical Movement

Jun 01, 2011 12:05 PM
by MKR


Many of us are waiting for the electronic version of Pelletier's book on the
Judge Case. Hopefully, by the time the new article is published, we will
have a copy.

Inaccessible material is of no value and many theosophists like access to
first hand materials.

MKR

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Govert Schuller <schuller@AJJ2iba22oj1coyMxOvN3fQoEk-liRyq6wt5bgvLpzHGZo8mN6nne8TaNcRi2SsoVmnULAgXdqyeYHY.yahoo.invalid>wrote:

>
>
> Dear Joaquim,
>
> No problem. I was actually referring to both of us running in circles.
>
> I do not regard the Judge issue as extraordinary important. I'm more
> concerned with the biased nature of the Call to Action initiative.
>
> There is an article which might be published which might be the best so far
> on the issue. We'll have to wait for it to use a common framework of
> reference.
>
> I'll wait till next April then.
>
> Best
>
> Govert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jdmsoares
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: theos-talk Understanding the Theosophical Movement
>
> Dear Govert, friends,
>
> Thank you Govert.
>
> My intention was not to "run in circles".
>
> I just wanted to give, one more time, the references on PellitierÂs
> response, so that all readers of Theos-talk could know about it (even if
> this meant that I was repeating myself).
>
> Frankly, I don't see a problem on that.
>
> Nevertheless, I believe that this is an important dialog and I do
> appreciate knowing about your position an evaluation on this matter.
>
> I also think that all the attention that you give to this issue is an
> evidence of the extraordinary importance of PellitierÂs book.
>
> Whatever the reasons one evokes, the truth is that a profound
> investigation should be made and that the Theosophical archives of Adyar
> and of other theosophical organizations should be open to independent
> researchers.
>
> As Leslie Price has pointed out, "this might go some way to healing
> the wounds of the schism." [1]
>
> And this, I am sure, will be only one of the several results that will
> influence the future of the theosophical movement.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Joaquim
>
> NOTE:
>
> [1] "A Call to Reopen Judge Case", by Leslie Price, published at
> http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=8
> <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=8>
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Govert Schuller" <schuller@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Joaquim,
> >
> > It looks like we're running in circles now, each referring to
> documents and posts we already referred to earlier.
> >
> > To bust out of that circle, let me just state as best as possible what
> I have found so far to be a reasonable evaluation of Pelletier's The
> Judge Case and the Call for Action initiatve, which is partially based
> on that study.
> >
> > 1) Caldwell, Forray and now myself (after reading the Pelletier
> chapter on HPB's wills) come to the conclusion that the Pelletier study
> is deeply flawed, because it is too speculative and partisan.
> >
> > 2) Pelletier's response to his critics Hesselink, Caldwell and Forray
> is not adequate as it does not adress Forray's crucial observation that
> Pelletier's study is patterned after the study The Theosophical Movement
> 1875-1925 (and its update), which is regarded by both Forray and
> Nethercott as biased.
> >
> > 3) Because Aveline's Call for Action is based on the assumed
> objectivity of The Judge Case and The Theosophical Movement 1875-1925
> (and its update), this initiative is as flawed as its sources and should
> be recast in more objective and non-partisan language.
> >
> > I think the problem in the Judge issue so far is that most in-house
> historians of the Theosophical Movement are not properly trained to keep
> their metaphysical convictions at bay while doing research. This will
> mostly lead to confirmation bias, speculative constructs and unfounded
> conclusions. Better to keep one's research within the realm of the
> provable, however frustratingly little that might be, and declare one's
> metaphysical conviction as conviction.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Govert
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: jdmsoares
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:08 PM
> > Subject: theos-talk Understanding the Theosophical Movement
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Govert, friends,
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Pelletier's response to Mr.Forray and Daniel can be found here:
> >
> > http://www.theosophycanada.com/fohat_AddressCriticsTJC.htm
> > <http://www.theosophycanada.com/fohat_AddressCriticsTJC.htm>
> >
> > He points out that,
> >
> > "Forray claims that not enough information was presented in TJC
> > about Besant's life before entering Theosophy. I wish to draw
> attention
> > to my article published in Fohat which dealt with this very subject.
> > References to it are provided, as they are too many other items
> which
> > were not specifically included in the text of TJC. Numerous books
> about
> > Besant are also readily available; it was therefore deemed
> unnecessary
> > to repeat it in this context."
> >
> > Let's hope more students can read "The Judge Case" by Ernest
> > Pelletier, so they can proceed with their own investigation of
> truth.
> >
> > Besides this, we can also see the importance of the "Justice to
> > Judge" initiative, so that Adyar opens the archives to independent
> > investigators.
> >
> > For those who wish to understand more about the evolution of the
> > theosophical movement, you can read:
> >
> > An Open Letter to Annie Besant
> >
> > How in 1909 William Kingsland
> >
> > Denounced Annie Besant's Farce
> >
> > The direct link is
> >
> http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/09/open-letter-to-annie-besant.h\
>  <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/09/open-letter-to-annie-besant.h>\
> > tml
> >
> <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/09/open-letter-to-annie-besant.\
>  <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/09/open-letter-to-annie-besant.>\
> > html>
> >
> > Best regards, Joaquim
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Govert Schuller" schuller@
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Joaquim,
> > >
> > > Thanks for sharing that chapter from the "Judge Case" on the wills
> of
> > HPB.
> > >
> > > After reading it a few times I have to conclude that Daniel
> Caldwell's
> > and Brett Forray's conclusions about the book "The Judge Case" are
> at> least valid and applicable to this chapter on HPB's wills.
> > >
> > > Daniel concluded:
> > >
> > > "As I have read and carefully studied the narratives written by
> > Pelletier in this book I have come to the conclusion that Pelletier
> > employs (as much as Paul Johnson ever did) speculative possibilities
> > with little or no documentation whatsoever."
> > >
> > > As one progresses trough the chapter the insertions of one
> > 'speculative possibility' after another become quite disconcerting.
> > >
> > > Mr. Forray observed that Pelletier's rendering of the story is
> heavily
> > skewered in favor of Judge, the protagonist who he wants to
> exonerate,
> > and that he excludes other points of view. Many others, in this case
> > Besant and Olcott, are depicted as immoral schemers.
> > >
> > > It looks like that The Judge Case reads more like a piece of
> advocacy
> > than non-partisan historical research.
> > >
> > > Best
> > >
> > > Govert
> > >
> > > Sources:
> > > The JUDGE CASE by Ernest E. Pelletier in 5 Parts. Reviewed by
> Daniel
> > H. Caldwell
> > >
> > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/pelletier_judge_case.htm
> > >
> > > Brett Forray's review of Pelletier's "The Judge Case" on the
> > Theosophical History website.
> > >
> > > http://www.theohistory.org/Judge_Case_Review-XI-2.pdf
> > >
> > > Pelletier's response can be found here:
> > >
> > > http://www.theosophycanada.com/fohat_AddressCriticsTJC.htm
> > >
> > > My evaluation of that response is here:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/56122
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: jdmsoares
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 4:27 AM
> > > Subject: Re: theos-talk Interview With Ernest Pelletier
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear friends,
> > >
> > > While we don't have "The Judge Case" accessible online for
> > > everyone, we have published a chapter of the work of Ernest
> > Pellitier.
> > >
> > > The chapter is entitled "The Wills of Helena P. Blavatsky".
> > >
> > > Here is an excerpt:
> > >
> > > 00000000000000000000000
> > >
> > > Shortly after reviewing The Secret Doctrine Annie Besant joined
> the
> > > Theosophical Society on March 10th, 1889. Besant had made a name
> for
> > > herself as one of England's finest orators and her abilities were
> > needed
> > > by the growing Society. Besant showed great promise as a student
> of
> > > Theosophy and was soon sitting at H.P.B.'s side acknowledging her
> as
> > > her new guru. She was quickly brought in as a pledged member of
> the
> > > Esoteric Section. Just one month before her death H.P.B. appointed
> > > Besant (April 1st, 1891) as the Chief Secretary of the Inner Group
> > of
> > > the Esoteric Section and Recorder of the Teachings,[1] and
> arranged
> > for
> > > her to go to America to meet William Q. Judge and deliver
> > Blavatsky's
> > > message to the American Convention held April 26th - 27th, 1891,
> as
> > her
> > > special delegate. At the time Besant accepted that Judge was an
> > > Occultist, a view she later discounted. On May 8th Blavatsky died
> in
> > > London while Besant was on her way back from America.
> > >
> > > Besant had sailed for England on May 6th and, upon receiving word
> of
> > > Blavatsky's death, Judge followed on May 13th, 1891. Olcott would
> > not
> > > sail from India until June 15th. Evidentiary facts have been
> > gathered
> > > and are presented here for consideration regarding that period
> > between
> > > Blavatsky's death on May 8th and the time of Judge's arrival in
> > London
> > > on May 21st, 1891.
> > >
> > > Blavatsky executed her first Will before she left India in early
> > 1885.
> > > According to Olcott she drew up a Will on January 31st, 1885.
> Olcott
> > > stated:
> > >
> > > "The witnesses were P. Sreenivasa Row, E.H. Morgan, T. Subba Rao,
> > > and C. Ramiah. It contains a clause to the effect that she wishes
> > her
> > > ashes to be buried within the compound of the Headquarters at
> Adyar;
> > and
> > > another request that annually, on the anniversary of her death,
> some
> > of
> > > her friends should assemble here and read a chapter of the Light
> of
> > Asia
> > > and one of Bhagavad GÃtÃ." [2]
> > >
> > > This is the Will and Testament which is being kept at Adyar to
> this
> > day,
> > > and considered Blavatsky's official Will. But it was not the Last
> > > Will and Testament she executed.
> > >
> > > (.)
> > >
> > > 000000000000000000000000
> > >
> > > The complete chapter can be read at
> > >
> >
> http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/02/wills-of-helena-p-blavatsky.h\
>  <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/02/wills-of-helena-p-blavatsky.h>\
> > \
> > > tml
> > >
> >
> <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/02/wills-of-helena-p-blavatsky.\
>  <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/02/wills-of-helena-p-blavatsky.>\
> > \
> > > html> .
> > >
> > > Best regards, Joaquim
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR mkr777@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I just visited the interview with Pelletier, many have heard of
> > his
> > > > voluminous work 'The Judge Case.' Not only is it very voluminous
> > and
> > > > contains a lot of material, it is also pricey. Thus very few
> have
> > seen
> > > the
> > > > book and not many average theosophists can afford to buy it. The
> > net
> > > result
> > > > is the very purpose of publication is defeated. Most
> theosophists
> > do
> > > want to
> > > > read first hand material and come to their own conclusions. We
> are
> > yet
> > > to
> > > > see a digital copy of the book which will make it easily
> > accessible to
> > > > members world-wide almost instantaneously.
> > > >
> > > > It looks like the decision makers who who come up with pricing
> of
> > > > theosophical publications seem to be totally blind to the need
> to
> > make
> > > > theosophical material easily accessible to middle class
> > theosophists
> > > most of
> > > > whom work full time and live on a month to month budget and
> cannot
> > > afford
> > > > pricey books.
> > > >
> > > > Other leaders and authors in theosophical circles also are not
> > > sensitive to
> > > > the price issue. This may be because most of them may have
> > received a
> > > > complimentary copy or may be the books are paid for by the
> > > organizations
> > > > they are part of.
> > > >
> > > > Until the publications are converted to electronic format and
> made
> > > available
> > > > for free or for a $1, we cannot expect a good circulation.
> > > >
> > > > Let us all pray that those in charge of deciding on the pricing,
> > soon
> > > wake
> > > > up to reality of the Internet world and digital publication.
> > > >
> > > > MKR
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 7:00 PM,
> theos-talk-owner@yahoogroups.com
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > (note prior message was truncated. now checking on group's
> > > > > settings...weird) admin
> > > > > ===================================
> > > > > Dear friends,
> > > > >
> > > > > We can see that the world scenario of the theosophical
> movement
> > is
> > > > > slowly changing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Old lies are being debunked, step by step. Some masks are
> > falling.
> > > The
> > > > > defense of truth is gaining strength. The true history of the
> > > movement
> > > > > starts to being known by an increasing number of students.
> > > > >
> > > > > Many have contributed so far to the revitalization process of
> > the
> > > > > movement as a whole. One of those devoted students is Ernest
> > > Pelletier,
> > > > > author of the important book "The Judge Case".
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > We have just published in our websites a recent interview with
> > this
> > > > > lifelong worker for the Cause.
> > > > >
> > > > > The text is entitled:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ernest PelletierÃÂs Viewpoint
> > > > >
> > > > > A 2011 Dialogue On the Karma and
> > > > >
> > > > > Dharma of the Theosophical Movement
> > > > >
> > > > > The direct links are:
> > > > >
> > www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2011/05/ernest-pelletiers-viewpoint.html
> > > and
> > > > > www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=237
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards, Joaquim
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "jdmsoares" jdmsoares@
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have just published in our websites a recent interview
> with
> > > this
> > > > > > lifelong worker for the Cause.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The text is entitled:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ernest PelletierÃÂs Viewpoint
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A 2011 Dialogue On the Karma and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dharma of the Theosophical Movement
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The direct links are:
> > > > > >
> > >
> www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2011/05/ernest-pelletiers-viewpoint.html
> > and
> > > > > www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=237
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards, Joaquim
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


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