Theos-Talk Archives (April 2011 Message tt00079)

Before signing a letter to Adyar, many of us like me, would like to see the
factual documentation that seems to be available in Pelletier's voluminous
and very expensive book so that we can read them and make up our own minds
and for this, the book should be available for free as a pdf file. I urge
everyone passionate about Judge issue, contact Pelletier and request him to
release the book in pdf format for free on Internet. Hopefully others would
join me in this endeavor.

MKR

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 5:05 PM, jdmsoares <jdmsoares@ig_X_4ySlIqX8fnYI5HtFP8Iez7YPUf5KJjYiXCe247_qrX_yxlFMym26p6naRj4cjqxn92S7PYmgHANmFs.yahoo.invalid> wrote:

>
>
>
> Dear Govert, friends,
>
> Govert, thanks.
>
> Meanwhile, all those who wish to participate in the "Justice to
> Judge â 2011" initiative should/could request to the Presidente
> of Adyar Theosophical Society to open the archives for independent
> researchers, releasing all documents for a profound investigation on the
> Judge Case.
>
> That will be a major step to restore truth and thus contribute to
> greater unity within the theosophical movement.
>
> For those who want to know how to participate read
>
> http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=220
> <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=220> .
>
> Best regards, Joaquim
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Govert Schuller" <schuller@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Joaquim,
> >
> > Just for the right order, and not looking for an argument:
> >
> > I'm merely stating that a) Pelletier did not address sufficiently the
> points made by Brett Forray and b) that the books referenced to in the
> Aveline letter are not to be taken as objective, as informative as they
> are.
> >
> > It all boils down imo to applying a measure of discrimination between
> the facts and the interpretation of the facts within a certain
> ideological or metaphysical theory. It's about the difference between
> the viewpoint of the believer (the emic view) and that of the neutral
> investigator (the etic view). Most people treat their convictions as
> facts and present them as such. Theosophists not excluded.
> >
> > BTW, I requested Santucci to release the review for all to read.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Govert
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: jdmsoares
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 7:07 PM
> > Subject: theos-talk Re: Justice to Judge in 2011
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Govert, all friends,
> >
> > While not wanting to enter in any personal exchange of arguments, I
> must
> > say the following:
> >
> > Ernest Pelliter himself wrote a commentary about the review made by
> > Brett Forray. Once again, you can read Pelliter commentary at
> > http://www.theosophycanada.com/fohat_AddressCriticsTJC.htm
> > <http://www.theosophycanada.com/fohat_AddressCriticsTJC.htm> .
> >
> > Allow me to recommend reading the following text published in our
> > websites:
> >
> > Corresponding With India On Ethics
> >
> > Two Letters to Mrs. Radha Burnier, One from Her
> >
> > The direct links are: http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=24
> > <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=24> and
> > http://www.filosofiaesoterica.com/ler.php?id=231
> > <http://www.filosofiaesoterica.com/ler.php?id=231> .
> >
> > In the text, one can read in a letter to Radha Burnier, dated April
> > 2006, the following:
> >
> > "So my respectful request to you - which I intend to renew in
> > the years ahead if necessary - is that, as a sign of respect for
> > truth and for the theosophical movement, the Theosophical Society,
> > Adyar, re-examine the Judge Case and show any proofs of his guilt -
> > or else declare him innocent. It will be also very important that
> all
> > information and documents referring to the Judge Case be made
> available
> > to independent researchers.
> >
> > That will mean indeed a significant contribution to the mutual
> > understanding between the different groups and institutions of the
> > theosophical movement as a whole.
> >
> > The search for truth, truthfulness and mutual respect are parts of
> our
> > common ground."
> >
> > Thus we can see that already in 2006 it had been asked to the
> President
> > of the Adyar Society that the archives could be opened and "all
> > information and documents referring to the Judge Case be made
> available
> > to independent researchers."
> >
> > Finally, the "Justice to Judge" initiative is promoted by
> > INDEPENDENT STUDENTS from various countries, as it is very clearly
> > expressed in the text "Justice to Judge in 2011 - The Sixth Year
> > of Open Letters to India
> <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=220>
> > ":
> >
> > "For the sixth time since April 2006, independent students from
> > various countries will be sending on 13 April 2011 a number of open
> > letters to the President of the Adyar Theosophical Society, Ms.
> Radha
> > Burnier. The headquarters of the Society is in Chennai, India.
> >
> > The students will be asking her to help stop a century old injustice
> by
> > re-examining the Adyar "Case" against Mr. William Q. Judge.
> > Those who have an interest in the future of the theosophical
> movement
> > are invited to join the initiative, which is a celebration of its
> > dynamic unity.
> >
> > Restoring justice with regard to William Judge does more than
> showing
> > that Adyar Society cares about Ethics and Truth. It gives a large
> > portion of the movement a better chance to benefit from the example
> of
> > Judge's life and from the wisdom present in his books. It opens the
> > way to a more intense life of the theosophical effort, by promoting
> a
> > better knowledge of its history and by destroying the illusion of
> > separateness. It stimulates the perception that the movement as a
> whole
> > is in fact one single magnetic field; that such an aura or
> energy-field
> > has a center; and that its living center is related to the
> > "blood" - the skandhas and magnetism donated by its main
> > Founders.
> >
> > This is what is really important.
> >
> > I invite you all to join the initiative, which is a celebration of
> the
> > dynamic unity of the theosophical movement.
> >
> > More information see: "Justice to Judge in 2011 - The Sixth Year
> > of Open Letters to India
> <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=220>
> > ".
> >
> > Best regards, Joaquim
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Govert Schuller" schuller@
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Joaquim,
> > >
> > > Thank you for linking to Pelletier's response to the reviewers of
> his
> > book The Judge Case.
> > >
> > > I re-read Brett Forray's review in Theosophical History XI/2.
> Though I
> > have not read The Judge Case it looks to me that Forray's review is
> > even-handed, informative and critical of Pelletier in a very
> reasonable
> > way. His main contention is that Pelletier's book "is solely
> intended to
> > exonerate Mr. Judge's role in this drama" and that it "makes no
> attempt
> > to impartially portray the many-sided views of this period."
> > Unfortunately Pelletier's response misses many of the points Forray
> > makes. If possible Forray's review should be made available for
> those
> > interested to see for themselves.
> > >
> > > Important to the "Justice to Judge" campaign is Forray's call to
> have
> > someone send over to Madras or Mumbai to inspect the crucial Judge
> to
> > Khandalava letter of September 1884.
> > >
> > > Your list with on-line items is interesting, but misses a good
> article
> > giving a neutral synopsis of the controversy. So far the most
> helpful
> > historical rendering of the case comes from the historian Arthur
> > Nethercot in his The Last Four Lives of Annie Besant, chapter 2 "The
> > Judging of Judge." Neither camp will be happy with his presentation,
> but
> > it seems the best so far.
> > >
> > > Especially one observation by Nethercot, tucked away in a
> footnote, is
> > I think pertinent to evaluating both Pelletier's book and Carlos
> > Aveline's "Call to Action" and that is his statement that the books
> The
> > Theosophical Movement 1875-1925 and its revision (or update) "appear
> to
> > be non-partisan in viewpoint, but are actually strongly biased
> towards
> > Judge and the Theosophical groups which followed him in splitting
> from
> > the main T.S." (p. 26) According to Forray, Pelletier relied
> > particularly on the narrative provided by these books from the ULT,
> > and--apparently so acknowledged in Pelletier's introduction--a
> synopsis
> > of the period provided by a ULT member gave Pelletier "the model for
> his
> > own outline of The Judge Case." The importance is that Aveline's, in
> > principle commendable "Call to Action" is premised on the idea that
> "In
> > fact, the 19th century process of unfair persecution against Judge
> > within the Adyar Theosophical Society is very well documented in
> various
> > books" (refering to the two ULT books and The Judge Case), giving
> the
> > false impression as if these were objective, independent,
> non-related
> > studies, while in reality the two ULT books are basically similar
> and
> > Pelletier's book is apparently modeled after the first two.
> > >
> > > Again, given the above and my observations in me previous e-mail,
> I
> > think that the "Justice for Judge" initiative at the Edmonton
> > Theosophical Society, commendable as it is, should be seriously
> revised
> > to reflect a more neutral stand if it wants to bear fruit, not only
> as
> > far as the truth is concerned, but also to foster cooperation.
> > >
> > > Best
> > >
> > > Govert
> > >
> > > cc: carlosaveline@
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: jdmsoares
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 8:05 PM
> > > Subject: theos-talk Re: Justice to Judge in 2011
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Govert, Erika, Konstantin, Sufilight, friends,
> > >
> > > Thanks Govert.
> > >
> > > You are right, the Judge Case it's very important, and you give
> > > pertinent suggestions.
> > >
> > > Also I must draw attention to you all for a fact.
> > >
> > > Katinka Hesselink came to some conclusions about the Judge Case in
> > her
> > > review of the important book written by Pelletier.
> > >
> > > I think we should carefully read the "Addressing the Critics of
> The
> > > Judge Case
> > >
> > > " by Ernest Pelletier, published in FOHAT, Vol.X, nÂ1, 2006,
> pp.
> > > 10-14 and 23.
> > >
> > > This article it is online at
> > > http://www.theosophycanada.com/fohat_AddressCriticsTJC.htm
> > > <http://www.theosophycanada.com/fohat_AddressCriticsTJC.htm> .
> > >
> > > I think the reply by Pelletier is quite enlightening as to the
> value
> > of
> > > some conclusions made by Katinka.
> > >
> > > Regarding to hypothetical concerns about the true motives behind
> > those
> > > who have request the re-open of Judge Case, I think its enough to
> > remind
> > > the motto of the theosophical movement:
> > >
> > > "There is no religion higher than truth".
> > >
> > > We think the theosophical movement can't be based on falsehoods.
> > >
> > > To those who are interested in know more facts about the "Justice
> to
> > > Judge", I leave here a list of texts published on our website:
> > >
> > > "Justice to Judge in 2011" - A Student of Theosophy , at
> > > http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=220
> > > <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=220> ;
> > >
> > > "The Truth About William Judge" - Carlos Cardoso Aveline, at
> > > http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=29
> > > <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=29> ;
> > >
> > > "Should One Defend William Judge?" - A Student of Theosophy, at
> > > http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=28
> > > <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=28> ;
> > >
> > > "From Mexico To India, on W. Judge" - Josà RamÃn Sordo, at
> > > http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=27
> > > <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=27> ;
> > >
> > > "An Open Letter to India" - Will Windham, at
> > > http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=26
> > > <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=26> ;
> > >
> > > "From Germany To India, on Justice" - Sieglinde Plocki, at
> > > http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=25
> > > <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=25> ;
> > >
> > > "Corresponding With India On Ethics" - Carlos Cardoso Aveline,
> > > at http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=24
> > > <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=24>
> > >
> > > "FOHAT And An Appeal for Justice" - A Canadian Theosophist, at
> > > http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=23
> > > <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=23> ;
> > >
> > > "Call To Reopen Judge Case" - Leslie Price, at
> > > http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=8
> > > <http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=8> .
> > >
> > > Best regards, Joaquim
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Govert Schuller" schuller@
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear all,
> > > >
> > > > Leslie Price should be commended for laying out the issue in a
> > clear
> > > and even-handed manner in his article "Call to Reopen Judge Case".
> > > >
> > > > What caught my eye is the following, imo, very important
> > paragraph:
> > > >
> > > > "However, I would not want to single out Adyar in this
> situation.
> > It
> > > is but one of a number of relevant Theosophical archives. In the
> > > pro-Judge TS Pasadena may be found letters of Olcott and Besant to
> > > Judge, the diaries of Judge, and the letters of the Mahatmas to
> > Judge
> > > which featured in the Case. Someone might suggest the TS Pasadena
> > was
> > > suppressing evidence of Judge's guilt."
> > > >
> > > > Probably most Theosophists either don't know about the Judge
> Case
> > or
> > > are indifferent about it, or leave it alone because it is so
> > complex,
> > > but for some it's a very important issue. Personnally I'm
> > interested,
> > > but not to the extent to purchase the $95 book The Judge Case - A
> > > Conspiracy Which Ruined the Theosophical Cause by Pelletier and go
> > > through its 984 pages. Katinka Hesselink did and came to the
> > following
> > > conclusions in her review of the book:
> > > >
> > > > "Was W.Q. Judge conspired against? Did Annie Besant become
> > magnetized
> > > to trust in Brahmin-hinduism too much? Did Olcott lose touch with
> > the
> > > Mahatmas? I don't know. Unfortunately The Judge Case ignores much
> of
> > the
> > > material that has been gathered in the magazine Theosophical
> History
> > > over the years, making it necessary for the present reviewer to
> look
> > > them up personally. The letter by Blavatsky, the article by
> > Spierenburg
> > > and the testimony of Wachtmeister taken together pull the rug
> under
> > most
> > > of Pelletier's thesis and minor points. I have only gone into the
> > main
> > > issues here. The result of the Judge case was in all events the
> > split up
> > > of the Theosophical Society and with that starting point, the
> > movement
> > > shattered ultimately into far more fragments. Whatever his
> mistakes,
> > the
> > > literature Judge produced stands as a monument to his theosophical
> > > insight even now. As this case is still a dividing point between
> the
> > > various theosophical groups, it is unfortunate that a more
> impartial
> > > hearing wasn't produced. Still, TJC pulls together pieces of
> > evidence
> > > and details from Judge's life that have been hard to find
> otherwise.
> > The
> > > serious student of theosophical history can't do without this
> book."
> > > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/judgecasereviewbykatinka.htm
> > > >
> > > > Given all of the above and Price's observation that both Ernest
> > > Pelletier, who compiled The Judge Case, and Carlos Aveline, who
> > wrote
> > > the open letter "A Call to Action" to Adyar, could be considered
> > > "hostile" critics of Adyar, I think the move towards resolution
> and
> > > reconciliation of and around the Judge Case might be helped by the
> > > following actions:
> > > >
> > > > 1) A new, truly neutral letter with the request to open any and
> > all
> > > relevant archives should be composed. Mr. Aveline's letter already
> > takes
> > > the position that Judge was innocent and Besant guilty and
> basically
> > > demands Adyar to admit that.
> > > > http://www.theosophycanada.com/fohat_justice.htm
> > > >
> > > > 2) The letter should be addressed to all the relevant archives
> and
> > > organizations.
> > > >
> > > > 3) The "Justice for Judge" initiative at the Edmonton
> Theosophical
> > > Society could be structured as a committee with representatives of
> > the
> > > different organizations, preferrably scholars, and chaired by a
> > neutral
> > > scholar like James Santucci, the editor of Theosophical History,
> in
> > > which findings and documents could be published.
> > > >
> > > > Don't know if this helps, but it makes sense to me.
> > > >
> > > > Govert Schuller
> > > >
> > > > cc: carlosaveline@
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: jdmsoares
> > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 9:17 AM
> > > > Subject: theos-talk Re: Justice to Judge in 2011
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dear Erica, MKR, friends,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Erica. You are right.
> > > >
> > > > For those who haven't read yet I will take the liberty to share
> > here
> > > > an important text by Leslie Price, entitled "Call to Reopen
> Judge
> > > > Case".
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Joaquim
> > > >
> > > > 0000000000000000000000000
> > > > Call To Reopen Judge Case
> > > >
> > > > Notes by the Way
> > > >
> > > > Leslie Price
> > > >
> > > > 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Reproduced from
> > > PSYPIONEER
> > > > bulletin,Volume 2, No 4; April 2006, pp. 91-92. Mr.Leslie Price
> is
> > a
> > > > well-known British historianof the Theosophical Movement. In the
> > > > 1980s, hefounded the magazine "Theosophical History".
> > > > 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
> > > > Let's summarise, and then comment on a recent Theosophical
> > > development.
> > > >
> > > > A Brazilian Theosophist has called on the Adyar-based
> Theosophical
> > > > Society to reopen the case of one of its founders, later its
> > > American
> > > > leader, William Quan Judge (1851-1896). In 1894, Judge was
> accused
> > > of
> > > > misusing the name of and handwriting of the Mahatmas, the
> advanced
> > > men
> > > > believed to have inspired the formation of the Society. This led
> > to
> > > a
> > > > schism among Theosophists which persists to this day. The United
> > > Lodge
> > > > of Theosophists, the T.S. Pasadena, and the independent Edmonton
> > > > Theosophical Society (Alberta, Canada) are among groups
> supporting
> > > > Judge.
> > > > In a letter published in the Edmonton journal Fohat (Spring
> 2006)
> > > Carlos
> > > > Cardoso Aveline suggests that "independent students could write
> > > > annual, open letters to the Adyar Theosophical Society asking it
> > to
> > > > re-examine its 'process' moved against William Q. Judge in
> 1894-5
> > > and
> > > > suggesting that its leaders should either show proofs of his
> guilt
> > > or
> > > > declare him innocent of any charges whatsoever." This letter
> also
> > > > appears on the Edmonton web site
> > > > http://www.theosophycanada.com/fohat_justice.htm
> > > > <http://www.theosophycanada.com/fohat_justice.htm> In June 2004
> > the
> > > > Edmonton Society published a 1000 page book "The Judge Case: a
> > > > conspiracy which ruined the Theosophical Cause" by Ernest
> > Pelletier
> > > > which printed much relevant documentation. However in an
> Addendum
> > to
> > > the
> > > > "Supplement" to this book, Pelletier charged that the Adyar
> > > > Society was withholding relevant documentation, in order to
> > preserve
> > > the
> > > > impression that Judge was guilty.In his letter, Aveline draws
> > > attention
> > > > to the 1885 case of H.P.Blavatsky who was also accused as a
> fraud
> > -
> > > in
> > > > this case by the SPR. In April 1986, however, the SPR (which has
> > no
> > > > collective views) published in its Journal a paper by a senior
> > > member,
> > > > Dr Vernon Harrison, which was highly critical of the previous
> > > findings.
> > > > An SPR press release made Dr Harrison's new investigation widely
> > > known.
> > > > 0000000 Now, does the Blavatsky /SPR case offer lessons for the
> > > Judge
> > > > Case? I believe it does. The SPR had been asked to make
> available
> > > its
> > > > surviving documentation about the Blavatsky investigation by
> > Walter
> > > > Carrithers ( pseudonym Adlai Waterman ) and it did so about
> 1960.
> > > > Carrithers could be regarded as a hostile critic, in much the
> same
> > > way
> > > > as Aveline or Pelletier could be regarded as hostile, but the
> > > material
> > > > was made available anyway, and it circulated in photocopied or
> > > microfilm
> > > > form among theosophical historians, before bearing fruit. (It
> > > revealed,
> > > > incidentally, that Blavatsky had produced bell phenomena in the
> > > presence
> > > > of members of the investigating committee, but this had been
> > deleted
> > > at
> > > > proof stage of a report. The written decision to delete had
> > > survived.)
> > > > 91 Later the SPR, after putting Dr Harrison's paper through its
> > > normal
> > > > review procedure, published it and publicised it. Not all
> members
> > of
> > > the
> > > > SPR agreed with Dr Harrison, just as not all agreed with the
> > > original
> > > > Blavatsky report. But the sting of the mutual antipathy which
> had
> > > > sometimes characterised SPR/TS relations since 1885 was drawn.
> > Does
> > > the
> > > > TS Adyar have any documents which would assist the defenders, or
> > for
> > > > that matter, the critics, of Judge? In the same issue of Fohat,
> > > > Pelletier points to at least one relevant letter (Judge to
> > > Khandalavala
> > > > Sept. 17 1884) of which he has a photocopy, but which he
> suspects
> > > may
> > > > have been tampered with in the original. And he has been told by
> > > Adyar
> > > > people of other relevant material at Adyar. Any new material
> could
> > > be
> > > > published in a suitable place, like the quarterly journal
> > > > "Theosophical History." In due course, "The Theosophist"
> > > > (Adyar's main journal) could carry one of more articles by
> senior
> > > > Theosophists of various views and organisations, drawing lessons
> > > from
> > > > the case, in the light of what we now know. This might go some
> way
> > > to
> > > > healing the wounds of the schism. However, I would not want to
> > > single
> > > > out Adyar in this situation. It is but one of a number of
> relevant
> > > > Theosophical archives. In the pro-Judge TS Pasadena may be found
> > > letters
> > > > of Olcott and Besant to Judge, the diaries of Judge, and the
> > letters
> > > of
> > > > the Mahatmas to Judge which featured in the Case. Someone might
> > > suggest
> > > > the TS Pasadena was suppressing evidence of Judge's guilt. In
> fact
> > > all
> > > > archives, by preserving documentation, are performing a vital
> > > service.
> > > > It would be useful now to move beyond charges and for all
> parties
> > to
> > > > work together to get all relevant documentation into the
> scholarly
> > > > domain. Beyond this Case, Judge was not only a profound
> > Theosophical
> > > > thinker, whose writings merit study, but also a witness to a
> > variety
> > > of
> > > > HPB phenomena - and a severe critic of the American psychic
> scene
> > of
> > > his
> > > > time. LESLIE PRICE
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]