Theos-Talk Archives (August 2010 Message tt00078)

"Never" is a long time. Many extraordinary and inconceivable changes have occurred just in our lifetime. 

The ending of apartheid in South Africa; bringing down the Berlin wall; the British leaving India.

For whatever the impetus, these were monumental changes, thought impossible up until the time they occurred.

And in any event, what's the alternative? Do nothing, say nothing?

I think not, but granted the action must be as wise as we can determine.

Never surrender to tyrany...never.



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Drpsionic@... wrote:
>
> And they still may never give a damn.  How do you get past the mute  button?
>  
> Chuck the Heretic
>  
> _www.charlescosimano.com  
> 
>  
> In a message dated 8/6/2010 10:22:50 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
> nhcareyta@... writes:
> 
>  
>  
>  
> We wait a little longer, try a little harder...and never give  up.
> 
> --- In 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com_ 
> (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) , Drpsionic@ wrote:
> >
> >  And if the local constituents really don't give a damn?
> > 
> > Chuck  the Heretic
> > 
> > www.charlescosimano.com 
> > 
> >  
> > In a message dated 8/5/2010 6:20:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
> > nhcareyta@ writes:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  Dear John, Erica and All
> > 
> > Thank you for your responses and  actions.
> > 
> > Thanks to the internet and its popularity these  issues are now being 
> aired 
> > throughout the broader community.
> >  Similarly, migration and asylum seeking are bringing certain cultural 
> >  differences to the attention of powerful western forces through 
> community  
> > outrage and protest. 
> > Already there are broad based,  community discussions on highly sensitive 
> > cultural and religious  practices. From female circumcision to the 
> wearing of 
> > the burka in  all its forms, and from certain kinds of torture to 
> stonings, 
> > all  these matters are now being discussed internationally with many 
> human 
> >  rights groups increasing the task of community education and action.
> >  Community act_ion equates to votes and it will eventually take a 
> foolhardy  
> > western politician to ignore the voices of their local  constituents.
> > The west can then_ bring greater pressure to bear on  recalcitrant 
> regimes.
> > 
> > Of course politics and economics are  powerful forces and yes, these are 
> > very early steps, but with the use  of the internet and its opportunities 
> to 
> > act I can see the early  signs of a broad based, international shift in 
> > consciousness, such as  we have never seen before. 
> > 
> > Kind regards
> >  Nigel
> > 
> > --- In 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _  (_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ 
> (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _) _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) __ 
> > (mailto:_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com_ 
> (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) ) , Augoeides-222@ wrote:
> >  >
> > > Nigel, 
> > > There are even video's of stoning  online on Google and Yahoo video's. 
> > There have been numerous articles  in the last few years about retrograde 
> 6th 
> > century abominable  punishments according the the conventions of Sharia 
> Law 
> > of Islamic  faith . One was a young teenager who had relation with a boy 
> and 
> > they  stoned her to death for the family "honor". There are Islamic 
> >  fundamentalist Personal Channels on Justin.tv ("Raah") and a few others 
> that  show 
> > poor victum's having their fingers cut off while being tightly  held by 
> > several men, Men being led to a grassy area for decapitition  and the 
> head 
> > proudly displayed sitting on the chest of the dead body.  I posted a few 
> of the 
> > 'Family honor" murder articles on this forum a  while back. I find these 
> > idea's, concepts, rationalizations and  practices abhorrent, abominable 
> and 
> > psychotic abberation in this  modern world of today. The Taliban are 
> perfect 
> > example of terrorist  suppressive_ degenerate religionism and the Wa habi 
> of_ 
> > Saudi Arabia  was a mentor to them. In England they are requesting the 
> right 
> > to  install Sharia Law parelell and eqeal to the British Justice 
> Institute  
> > itself. people never studied the History of conquest by "perfusion"  and 
> > "suffusion" and population displacement that is evidenced in  History as 
> a social 
> > passive technique long established and practiced.  A best present time is 
> > China and Tibet where China is actively  practising this historic method 
> with 
> > a vengeance. One morning in a  future we may wake up to a dreadful 
> reality 
> > that slowly insidiously  pervaded our social space and beingness, beware 
> my 
> > friends of greeks  bearing gifts. 
> > > 
> > > John 
> > > ----- Original  Message ----- 
> > > From: "Erica L. Georgiades" <eletzerich@>  
> > > To: _ (_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _) _ 
> (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) __ 
> > (mailto:_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com_ 
> (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _) _ 
> > > Sent: Thursday,  August 5, 2010 7:50:53 AM 
> > > Subject: Re: theos-talk Action needed  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> >  > 
> > > Dear Nigel, 
> > > 
> > > Death by stoning  because of adultery also exists in Afghanistan and 
> > Somalia. 
> >  > From time to time I am signing petitions against such barbarism, this 
> is  
> > not the 
> > > first. I remember some years ago a similar case  in Somalia, her name 
> was 
> > Aisho 
> > > ...dont remember the  surname. And now Sakineh... the poor women has a 
> > son and 
> >  > a daughter and is only 42 years old. Also I just read that in Iran 
> there  
> > is 
> > > also another 10 women waiting death-roll sentence,  for the same 
> reason. 
> > > 
> > > Erica 
> > > 
> >  > ________________________________ 
> > > From: nhcareyta <  nhcareyta@ > 
> > > To: _ (_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _) _ 
> (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) __ 
> > (mailto:_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com_ 
> (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _) _ 
> > > Sent: Thu, August 5,  2010 5:21:19 PM 
> > > Subject: Re: theos-talk Action needed 
> >  > 
> > > Dear Erica 
> > > 
> > > In spite of the  considerable political considerations you mention, all 
> > of which  
> > > are accurate, there have been some quite remarkable social and  
> political 
> > changes 
> > > over recent times. Avaaz is one  organisation making real headway in 
> some 
> > similar 
> > >  situations, so all may not be lost. 
> > > 
> > > In any event,  if we do nothing then certainly nothing will happen! So 
> > thank you  
> > > for contacting some of your fellow members. If everyone on  t/talk does 
> > the same 
> > > a snowball reaction may occur.  
> > > 
> > > Kind regards 
> > > Nigel 
> > >  
> > > --- In _ (_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _) _ 
> (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:_theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) __ 
> > (mailto:_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com_ 
> (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) ) , "Erica" <eletzerich@> wrote:  
> > > > 
> > > > Dear Nigel, 
> > > > 
> >  > > This is most barbarian thing, which is unacceptable. I think the  
> > matter is in 
> > > >fact an international matter and not  only of influence of one country 
> > or 
> > > >another.  
> > > > 
> > > > The United Nations could also interfere  if they want. Such kind of 
> law 
> > should 
> > > >be completely  abolished. Today is Sakineh imprisoned and condemned to 
> > death,  
> > > >tomorrow will be another Sakineh and the thing will go on  and on. 
> > > > 
> > > > If there is not a strong  international interference, I consider 
> almost 
> > > >impossible a  diplomatic solution for this problem to be found. If 
> Iran 
> > opens one  
> > > >exception, eventually they would need to change their law.  And when 
> one 
> > has to 
> > > >do with Islamic laws, is as if  someone puts the hand in a "bag full 
> of 
> > cats". 
> > > >  
> > > > So such a hope regarding Brazil and Turkey to find a  diplomatic 
> > solution, are 
> > > >vain in my opinion. In my  opinion all the internati_onal community 
> > should raise 
> > >  >their voice and interfere, als_o stating that such a law should be  
> > abolished. 
> > > >But unfortunately this wont happen,  because there is no oil or money 
> > involved. 
> > > >  
> > > > See the case of Aung San Suu kyi, years imprisoned by the  military 
> > regime or 
> > > >Burma. Nothing was done to help  the people of Burma or to release 
> her, 
> > except 
> > >  >endless diplomatic talks which resulted probably in the fact that she 
>  
> > is still 
> > > >alive. 
> > > > 
> > >  > Anyway I will send some e-mails to some members of the Brazilian 
> >  Section I 
> > > >know. 
> > > > 
> > > > Erica  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  --- In _ (_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _) 
> > _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com_ 
> (mailto:_theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) __ (mailto:_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _) _ , 
> "nhcareyta" <nhcareyta@>  wrote: 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Dear Erica 
> >  > > > 
> > > > > Yes, that is correct. That is why I  asked whether there are some 
> > wealthy 
> > > >Adyar Society  Brazilian members able to bring extra influence on 
> their 
> > >  >President, perhaps to make another, more strident attempt. 
> > >  > > 
> > > > > That would surely be Theosophy in action.  
> > > > > 
> > > > > Regards 
> > > >  > Nigel 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In _ (_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _) 
> > _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com_ 
> (mailto:_theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) __ (mailto:_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _) _ , 
> "Erica L. Georgiades" 
> >  <eletzerich@> 
> > > wrote: 
> > > > > > 
> >  > > > > Yesterday I read on Washington Post that, Lula the  Brazilian 
> > President, 
> > > >already 
> > > >  
> > > > > > requested to the President of Iran to release her  and give her 
> > asylum in 
> > > >Brazil. 
> > > >  
> > > > > > The request of the President of Brazil was  denied. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> >  > > > > Erica 
> > > > > > 
> > > > >  > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > >  > > > ________________________________ 
> > > > > >  From: nhcareyta <nhcareyta@> 
> > > > > > To: _ (_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _) 
> > _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) __theos-talk@yahoogroups.com_ 
> (mailto:_theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) __ (mailto:_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _theos-talk@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) ) 
> > > > > > Sent:  Thu, August 5, 2010 3:32:23 PM 
> > > > > > Subject:  theos-talk Action needed 
> > > > > > 
> > > > >  > 
> > > > > > Dear All 
> > > > > >  
> > > > > > Perhaps some wealthy Adyar Society Brazilian  members can bring 
> > additional 
> > > > > > pressure to  bear on their President to address this outrageous 
> > issue? 
> >  > > > > 
> > > > > > "Dear Friends, 
> > >  > > > 
> > > > > > Global pressure on Iran has saved  Sakineh from death by stoning, 
> > but within 
> > > >days  
> > > > 
> > > > > > she could still be hanged.  More pressure from leaders in Brazil 
> > and Turkey, 
> > > >  
> > > > > > Iran's allies, are Sakineh's last hope. Donate  below to fund an 
> > emergency 
> > > >ad 
> > > >  
> > > > > > campaign in Brazil and Turkey in the next 72  hours: 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > >  > > > Sakineh Ashtiani could be executed for adultery in Iran in the  
> > next few 
> > > >days, 
> > > > 
> > >  > > > but two men could still save her -- the leaders of Brazil and  
> > Turkey. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >  President Lula and Prime Minister Erdo&#287;an are powerful 
> allies  
> > and 
> > > >mediators 
> > > > 
> > > >  > > with Iran w_ho enjoy great respect there, and both countries 
> have  
> > condemned 
> > > >the 
> > > > 
> > > >  > > case. Now, we need to push them to deploy all their diplomatic  
> > forces and 
> > > > > > persuade Iran to free Sakineh  and stop stoning forever. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > >  > 
> > > > > > Avaaz is launching an emergency ad campaign  in influential 
> > newspapers in 
> > > >Turkey 
> > >  > 
> > > > > > and Brazil urging them to press Iran for  clemency and justice. 
> The 
> > ads will 
> > > > 
> > >  > > > deliver our half-million strong petition, reach political  
> circles 
> > and 
> > > >directly 
> > > > 
> >  > > > > appeal to Lula's and Erdo&#287;an's leadership and  moral 
> > authority. If 
> > > >5,000 of 
> > > >  
> > > > > > us donate even a small amount in the next 72  hours, we'll make a 
> > powerful 
> > > > > > statement  before it's too late. This may be Sakineh's last hope 
> -- 
> > click  
> > > >here to 
> > > > 
> > > > > > chip  in: 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > _> _ (_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _) 
> > __ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl__ (https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_) _ (_ 
> (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_ (https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl) ) 
> > > > > > 
> >  > > > > Sakineh's sentence is a farcical travesty of justice. She  was 
> > sentenced to 
> > > >death 
> > > > 
> >  > > > > by stoning for allegedly having relations with other men  -- 
> years 
> > after her 
> > > > 
> > > > > >  husband had passed away, despite stoning having been outlawed in 
> >  Iran, and 
> > > 
> > > > > > despite her not being  able to speak the language of her trial. 
> Her 
> > two 
> > >  >children 
> > > > 
> > > > > > launched a  campaign to save her life, and generated a worldwide 
> > uproar, 
> >  > > > > including over 554,000 Avaaz members. Feeling the  pressure, the 
> > Iranian 
> > > > > > government revoked  the stoning, but the execution sentence 
> stands. 
> > 
> > > >  > > 
> > > > > > Tension has been rising in Iran since  the Sakineh case gained 
> > attention -- 
> > > >the 
> >  > > 
> > > > > > regime has threatened to arrest her  children for speaking out 
> and 
> > has 
> > > >issued an  
> > > > 
> > > > > > arrest warrant against  Sakineh's lawyer. He has now gone into 
> > hiding and 
> > >  >his 
> > > > 
> > > > > > family-members have  been rounded-up. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > But  Lula and Erdo&#287;an have great respect in Iran and can 
> >  influence the 
> > > 
> > > > > > regime. And they  listen to us. Lula had said that he would not 
> get 
> > involved 
> >  > >in 
> > > > 
> > > > > > this case. But  after an aide brought his attention to the 
> massive 
> > online 
> >  > > > > campaign, he changed his mind, offering Sakineh asylum and  
> > prompting 
> > > >Iranian 
> > > > 
> > >  > > > authorities to announce that the case would be quickly  
> resolved. 
> > We know 
> > > >Lula 
> > > > 
> >  > > > > listens to Avaaz campaigns -- in the last year, despite  
> powerful 
> > > >opposition, 
> > > > 
> > > >  > > members in Brazil have helped persuade Lula to sign off on a law 
>  
> > to protect 
> > > >the 
> > > > 
> > >  > > > Amazon and a bold anti-corruption law. 
> > > > >  > 
> > > > > > During the last two weeks, over 554,000 of  us have signed the 
> > petition to 
> > > >Save 
> > >  > 
> > > > > > Sakineh and end stoning in Iran. We only  have days left to 
> > persu_ade Lula 
> > > >and 
> > >  > 
> > > > > > Erdo&#287;an to act -- and it may be our  last chance to save 
> > Sakineh. Let's 
> > > >each 
> >  > > 
> > > > > > pitch in a small amount and _make sure  they hear our call to 
> > leadership: 
> > > > > >  
> > > > > > _ (_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _) 
> > __ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl__ (https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_) _ (_ 
> (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_ (https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl) _) 
> > _ 
> > > > >  > 
> 
> > > > > > Sakineh's case has outraged the entire world  by the sheer scale 
> of 
> > its 
> > > >brutal, 
> > >  > 
> > > > > > nonsensical injustice. But in our fight for  one woman we make a 
> > powerful 
> > > > > > statement  about women, and people, everywhere. In standing up 
> for 
> > one 
> >  > >person, we 
> > > > 
> > > > > > stand up  for everyone's right to justice. 
> > > > > > 
> > >  > > > Sakineh's children's have sent out a last plea: "Do not allow  
> our 
> > nightmare 
> > > > 
> > > > > > become  a reality, Today, when nearly all options have reached 
> > dead-ends, we  
> > > > 
> > > > > > resort to you. Please help our  mother return home!" Click here 
> to 
> > answer 
> > > >their  
> > > > 
> > > > > > call, and get Erdo&#287;an  and Lula to do the same: 
> > > > > > 
> > > > >  > _ (_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _) 
> > __ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl__ (https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_) _ (_ 
> (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl_ (https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_sakinehs_life/?vl) _) 
> > _ 
> > > > >  > 
> > > > > > With hope and determination, 
> > >  > > > 
> > > > > > Alice, Pascal, Alice W, Ricken,  David, and the Avaaz Team 
> > > > > > 
> > > > >  > SOURCES: 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The  Guardian, "Iran stoning woman offered asylum by Brazil's 
> > President  
> > > >Lula": 
> > > > 
> > > > > > _  (_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _) 
> > __ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> _http://www.avaaz.org/guardian_sakineh_article__ (http://www.avaaz.org/guardian_sakineh_article_) _ (_ 
> (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.avaaz.org/guardian_sakineh_article_ 
> (http://www.avaaz.org/guardian_sakineh_article) _) _ " 
> > > > > >  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > >  > > 
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have  been removed] 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> >  > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have  been removed] 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> >  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >  >
> > 
> > _ (_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.charlescosimano.com/_ 
> (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _) 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
> >
> 
> _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>