Theos-Talk Archives (April 2010 Message tt00130)

"The questions confronting humanity during this transition period are
not really between war and peace, but rather, between peace and change.
For war is merely one aspect of change and the changes needed at this
time are far reaching in scope. Once these changes begin to be
implemented they will enable humanity to once and for all free itself
from the grip and weight of its materialistic mindset and so move into
the new age, an age which will be conditioned by the free sharing and
distribution of all the world's resources and the slow transfer of
the arms industry into those industries that support life."

Morten, the use of 'we' is done so in referring to 'humanity'. The
article clearly does not read in favour of the USA or the administration
at that time. It goes on to highlight the fair distribution of the
worlds resources and the transfer of the arms industry into a human
industrious nature that supports life. Jeremy.


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
<global-theosophy@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Jeremy and friends
>
> My views are:
>
> Yes.
> I thank you for providing these extra quotes.
> I do however not find that your quotes change the views I forwarded.
>
> Let us understand, that the Lucis Trust use of words in the quoted
Newsletters (no.2 espeically) was stating that: "We did not rush blindly
into war;" etc. - Using the word "We" as if the Lucis Trust was behind
the invasion of Iraq.
>
> - And later the revealing words of failure by Lucis Trust: "But in the
frenzy of the rush to war they were given scant attention and we all
lost in the process." - Words which are very telling about Lucis Trust
attitude towards Iraq and the invasion of that country; especially by
the use of the word "we". And asking about what Lucis Trust find was
"lost", one could read it as the Western countries lost their near and
dear ones - or one could read it in the sense that Lucis Trust failed
morally. What kind of loss are they talking about if neither of these
remain unanswered. The words sound in the Newsletter no. 2 sounds very
much like a support for a crusade, than the opposite.
>
> - And an invasion, which was clearly called illegal by a great number
of leaders at the United Nations - the UN General Secretary included -
as well by a huge number of Law-experts, the European Association of
Lawyers and also the International Commision of Jurists.
>
> - And let us not forget, that the Original Programe of the TS given by
H. P. Blasvatsky (BCW Vol. VII, p. 145-146) clearly stated, that the TS
was not formed to involve itself with political disputes and issues. Not
that I am involving myself with them, because I just trying to forward
the point, that Lucis Trust have deviated from the Original Programe as
given by HPB and the Masters, which Olcott endorsed initially.
>
> An example from HPBs Original Program for the TS:
> "XIV. The Society having to deal only with scientific and
philosophical subjects, and having Branches in different parts of the
world under various forms of Government, does not permit its members, as
such, to interfere with politics, and repudiates any attempt on the part
of anyone to commit it in favor or against any political party or
measure. Violation of this rule will meet with expulsion."
> (BCW Vol. VII, p. 145-146)
> http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v7/yxxxx_019.htm
>
>
> An example is Wikipedia on - 2003 invasion of Iraq:
> "The legality of the invasion of Iraq has been challenged since its
inception on a number of fronts, and several prominent supporters of the
invasion in all the invading nations have publicly and privately cast
doubt on its legality. It is claimed that the invasion was fully legal
because authorization was implied by the United Nations Security
Council.[85][86] International legal experts, including the
International Commission of Jurists, a group of 31 leading Canadian law
professors, and the U.S.-based Lawyers Committee on Nuclear Policy, have
denounced both of these rationales.[87][88][89]"
>
> Also International Commision of Jurists - Legal Resource Center:
> 20th March 2003
> "The ICJ condemns the illegal invasion of Iraq in the clear absence of
Security Council authority -this constitutes a great leap backward in
the international rule of law."
> ...
> "The ICJ recalls the absolute prohibition of committing war crimes or
crimes against humanity. Such crimes entail the individual
responsibility of all involved persons, from the political masters to
the foot soldier. "
> http://icj.org/news.php3?id_article=2774&lang=en
>
>
> H. P. Blavatsky wrote in 1886 - and I find it still to be so very
true:
> "We look in the midst of your Christian civilization and see the same
sad signs of old: the realities of your daily lives are diametrically
opposed to your religious ideal, but you feel it not; the thought that
the very laws that govern your being whether in the domain of politics
or social economy clash painfully with the origins of your religion"
> (BCW Vol. VII, p. 145-146)
> http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v7/yxxxx_019.htm
>
> Let me repeat, that my point is only to clearly show how much Lucis
Trust have involved itself with political disputes - and thereby
deviated from the Original Programe of the TS as it was given. I am not
here judging about whether killing thousands of human beings were
justified by either group involved in supporting the recent Invasion and
War in Iraq. But since the TS Original Programe clearly seek to create a
Universal Bortherhood of Humanity, we can only question the motives
behind such an acitivity; and ask whether altruism governed Lucis Trust,
when they posted their Newsletters, which have been quote in this thread
at this forum.
>
> So I find it difficult to understand that any Master would support
Lucis Trusts activities and calim to be in accordance with the Original
Programe given by H. P. Blavatsky and the Masters.
> If any followers of Lucis Trust find the opposite to be true - please
let me (and others) know, so I and others might be able to follow the
Path more easily.
>
> What are your views about this Jeremey? Others?
>
>
> M. Sufilight
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeremy
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 10:45 PM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: Did the AAB and Besant - T.S. and E.S.
deviate from the Original Lines?
>
>
>
>
> JC: For corresponding secretaries this is true. The Lucis Trust
comment
> on world politics in the World Goodwill newsletter, and the two are
> distinct and therefore different as is obvious. Below we will see
> further comment not picked up by Morten in the same document.
>
> > Further we have from Alice A. Bailey's "Autobiography of Alice A.
> Bailey":
> > "Our secretaries are not permitted to enter into political or
> religious arguments with the students they supervise. We seek only to
> indicate the common goal, the universal field of service and the
ancient
> methods whereby human beings can pass from the unreal to the Real."
(p.
> 198)
> >
> > A comment:
> > Yet in recent years we find the Lucis Trust to formulate itself in
> more or less political tone of voice.
> >
> > Try the following newsletter from Lucis Trust, nr. 2, 2003:
> > *** The War in Iraq ***
> > "We did not rush blindly into war; instead it was considered
> deliberately and passionately by all the many members of the world
> community demonstrating a noble attempt to solve this problem in a
more
> enlightened way. And although we seemingly failed, nonetheless a
process
> was initiated."
>
> > "That is not to say that force is never justified for, as we well
> know, the transition period through which we are manoeuvring is
fraught
> with tremendous difficulties of which we are all too vividly aware.
The
> terrorist threat does not yield to facile or immediate solutions. And
as
> much as we might long for the cessation of warfare, due to the
dangerous
> world in which we live there are times when it is justified. "
> >
>
http://www.lucistrust.org/en/media/files/wg_newsletters_pdf_files/2003_2
>
<http://www.lucistrust.org/en/media/files/wg_newsletters_pdf_files/2003_\
\
> 2>
>
> The same referance also states the following, for contrast...
>
> "During times of crisis the world's leaders become the recipients of
> much animosity and criticism. And whether or not we, as individuals,
> agree or disagree with their policies we should hold in mind that our
> leaders are merely the embodiments of the national life, the focal
> points through which events work out. Our problems are the collective
> responsibility of humanity as a whole and it is, therefore, right that
> humanity resolve them collectively."
>
> "Perhaps our failure to resolve the Iraqi crisis without the use of
> force was largely a refl ection of our inability to give serious
> consideration to new ideas. There are quite a number of
forward-looking
> approaches to conflict mediation that would have been open to us had
we
> taken the time to seriously consider them. But in the frenzy of the
rush
> to war they were given scant attention and we all lost in the
process."
>
> "Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at their
> rightvalue; and unless a judge compares notes and hears both sides he
> can hardly come to a correct decision." H.P. Blavatsky. The
> Theosophist,July, 1881, p. 218.
>
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