Theos-Talk Archives (March 2010 Message tt00022)

MKR, 

>>>The other issue is - does Orlando lodge own property and if so what is 
approximate worth 

It is also not a good idea for TS to lose a lodge in a major city like 
Orlando. How often has the national leadership been able to get lodges 
started in major cities?<<< 

Maybe that's the entire point. Collect real property with real value in major cities all over.Then build or have others build for a negotiated split. Things like hi-rise apts. and business bldg's can furnish lots of rental income to a non-profit entity perhaps with no tax liability. The ground is the most fundamental eternal investment. Especially when viewing the declining trend graph of the Society. 

Duane might know what happened to the Boston Lodge and it's property. 
John 




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "MKR" <mkr777@gmail.com> 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:06:48 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: Theos-World QUESTIONS WE HAVE BEEN ASKING 






Thanks for the feedback. 

In a situation like this, for ordinary members who are not privy to the real 
problems, there should be a simple explanation so all could understand what 
is going on. 

The other issue is - does Orlando lodge own property and if so what is 
approximate worth and what is going to happen to it. Is Wheaton going to 
sell the property and take control of the money? Usually when there is no 
money, you will not see any action from the top. 

As they say, follow the money and you will learn a lot. 

Until the real issue is explained, it is not going to reflect well on the 
National Leadership. Also especially no one at the top most level seems to 
have visited the lodge recently and attempts made to resolve the real 
problem in a satisfactory manner. 

Explanation is needed why this was not done; because that is how Olcott, a 
very seasoned lawyer and administrator and organizer used to do and that was 
why he was able to expand presence of TS to various countries.Even today in 
business and personal situations, when there is a complex problem, usually a 
personal one-on-one attempt helps to resolve the problem. 

It is also not a good idea for TS to lose a lodge in a major city like 
Orlando. How often has the national leadership been able to get lodges 
started in major cities? Do they have a plan to start a replacement lodge in 
Orlando??? 

MKR 

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 11:30 AM, Spirituality < mail@katinkahesselink.net >wrote: 

> 
> 
> Hi Ramadoss and others, 
> 
> The Orlando lodge has been in a quarrel with the USA section of the TS 
> Adyar for years now. They are representing this as a surprise, but they 
> contacted me a few years ago - and I contacted Betty back then. I don't 
> remember the details, but I do remember that their story made much less 
> sense than Betty's. The fact that they're playing as though this is a 
> surprise is an indication that they're not being precisely fair and open. 
> 
> I agree this kind of thing is sad. I'm sure Betty herself would agree to 
> that as well. But I also know that the Orlando lodge had their chance and a 
> LOT of time to clean things up. Apparently they didn't. 
> 
> It's the sad job of the national section to get rid of lodges like that. 
> 
> BTW - even if I remembered the details, or bothered to look them up, I 
> still don't think anything would be served by publishing them here. The only 
> result would be for the members of that lodge to feel offended at being 
> outed publicly. 
> 
> It would take a private online forum for that kind of openness to be fair 
> to all involved. 
> 
> Katinka Hesselink 
> 
> http://www.katinkahesselink.net/ 
> http://www.overpeinzende.nl/ 
> http://www.allconsidering.com/ 
> http://www.myspiritualquotes.com/ 
> http://www.moderntheosophy.com/ 
> http://spiritualindiatrip.com/ 
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, MKR 
> <mkr777@...> wrote: 
> > 
> > Where are all those women and men (many of them may be 'leaders' and 
> others 
> > whose food and lodging may be at risk at the whim of the elected leaders) 
> > hiding behind pseudonyms and vociferous about 'who is mowing the lawn at 
> > Adyar'??? 
> > 
> > What is going on in Orlando needs simple explanation as to the 'real' 
> > problem that is behind the action. 
> > 
> > MKR 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 7:34 PM, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote: 
> > 
> > > I am very saddened to read the message. 
> > > 
> > > At a time when the membership and lodges have been shrinking, it is 
> very 
> > > difficult to understand, especially for ordinary members who are not 
> privy 
> > > to what is going on at the top most levels. 
> > > 
> > > This is all the more so coming after all the events we have witnessed 
> > > (courtesy of Internet) starting with the electioneering for 
> International 
> > > President, which has hurt the credibility of many theosophists and 
> leaders, 
> > > can only hurt the future growth of TS in America and the spread of 
> theosophy 
> > > for the masses in America. Deeds speak for themselves and members are 
> > > intelligent enough to make up their own mind. 
> > > 
> > > When other lodges lodges, especially those who own valuable property 
> and 
> > > money in the bank, would be wondering who is next in line. 
> > > 
> > > In an earlier message on theos-talk, I mentioned the shocking fact that 
> the 
> > > issue of declining or frozen membership outside India never come up in 
> the 
> > > last several GC meetings where the cream of professors, politicians, 
> elders, 
> > > leaders, occultists, ETC. met to discuss important issues relating to 
> TS 
> > > and its future. 
> > > 
> > > I am hoping that it is NOT a world-wide unwritten long-term future 
> policy 
> > > of TS to shrink and reduce the membership outside India and for 
> National 
> > > leaders to take control and consolidate the money and assets. 
> > > 
> > > If it is the unwritten long-term policy of TS to shrink and reduce the 
> > > membership outside India, then, simple practice of Universal 
> Brotherhood 
> > > requires a clear cut announcement by the leaders. This can be done 
> quickly 
> > > and at no cost to anyone. We can post the announcement on theos-talk 
> and 
> > > other Internet forums for free. 
> > > 
> > > Such an announcement will enable members to know where TS is heading 
> and 
> > > decide for themselves how they want to get involved in the TS as we 
> know it. 
> > > (Are those talking about the lack of volunteers, listening???) 
> > > 
> > > In the past, many leaders have chosen to keep silent. Silence during 
> the 
> > > last two years, with the background of great unnecessary secrecy with 
> which 
> > > decisions have been taken at all levels, has not helped TS or 
> Theosophy. 
> > > Silence has only given rise to speculation and vigilance on the part of 
> > > members. 
> > > 
> > > Only total transparency can help to turn the current tide in the TS. 
> Let us 
> > > keep tuned to see what the leaders want to do? Or continue to keep 
> > > themselves in their cocoons or start multi-faceted communication with 
> > > members? 
> > > 
> > > MKR 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 4:56 PM, t_s_theosophist <THEOSOPHIST@ 
> ...>wrote: 
> 
> > > 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> QUESTIONS WE HAVE BEEN ASKING 
> > >> 
> > >> We recieved an offical notice dated March 3, from Betty Bland stating 
> that 
> > >> she has closed 
> > >> Orlando Lodge, couched in all of the necessary legal terms. 
> > >> 
> > >> It was a total surprise to us when on July 24, 2009 we recieved an 
> offical 
> > >> letter from Jerome Michel, District Director that there had been a 
> > >> "long term investigation" of Orlando Lodge. In the letter he made 
> several 
> > >> very disparaging allegations against us but WITHOUT any type of 
> > >> documentation. 
> > >> 
> > >> We were surprised because NO member of Orlando Lodge had been 
> interviewed 
> > >> or contacted by their "investigators." And NO Director has ever 
> visited 
> > >> Orlando Lodge. Point is they do not know us, they have never been here 
> and 
> > >> they did not speak to us. 
> > >> 
> > >> We were also surprised because NO member of Orlando Lodge had been a 
> party 
> > >> to their alleged complaints. And there has been NO internal dissention 
> > >> within Orlando Lodge. We have been and still are united and 
> harmonious. 
> > >> 
> > >> We have been asking, and you may wonder also: "What Type of 
> Investigation 
> > >> is carried out 
> > >> where the parties concerned are not personally interviewed or the 
> location 
> > >> involved not visited???" "What Type of Investigation relies on second 
> hand 
> > >> heresay gossip and mis-information???" 
> > >> 
> > >> What Type of "Investigation" is This ??? 
> > >> 
> > >> To take such drastic action to close a Lodge certainly should require 
> a 
> > >> certain Investigative protocol ,and solid documentation. What Type of 
> Board 
> > >> of Directors "Rubber Stamps' a charade like this? 
> > >> 
> > >> We have asked the Administration several times for documentation of 
> their 
> > >> allegations 
> > >> and have been ignored each time. 
> > >> 
> > >> Just as we were totally surprised to hear of an "investigation" of our 
> > >> Lodge, YOU TOO may one day get the same "surprise." 
> > >> 
> > >> The fact is that the TSA By-Laws do NOT give the National Society ANY 
> > >> authority to interfere in the internal affairs of a Autonomous Lodge 
> as long 
> > >> as the Lodge is operating congruently with Theosophical Traditions & 
> Ethos. 
> > >> Orlando Lodge has always operated within these parameters, and has 
> never 
> > >> violated any policies. 
> > >> 
> > >> What Type of Investigation is This, We Would Like To Know ? 
> > >> 
> > >> There was NO Legitimate Probable Cause for the TSA Board to take such 
> > >> drastic action against Orlando Lodge, so in order to proceed with 
> their plan 
> > >> they had to Fabricate a "Cause" we are certain that this attempt will 
> reveal 
> > >> itself when documentation is provided. 
> > >> 
> > >> These draconian actions have a very chilling effect on Freedom of 
> > >> Expression, and their intent is to "make an example" and intimidate 
> others 
> > >> from speaking out their conscience. We feel that it is important for 
> > >> members, potential members & donors to know how this administration 
> actually 
> > >> represses respectful dissent. 
> > >> 
> > >> We are certain that members and donors do not want their monies wasted 
> on 
> > >> political litigation. 
> > >> The members, potential members & donors should also keep in mind that 
> > >> these are the same people who were complicit in the mis-information 
> Betty 
> > >> Bland spread about the health status of Radha Burnier in the last 
> > >> presidential election. Betty Blands stated opinion was that Radha was 
> not 
> > >> fit to hold office any longer. Mrs. Bland did NOT share with the 
> members the 
> > >> fact that three well qualified physicians certified that Mrs. Burnier 
> WAS 
> > >> fit to hold office. 
> > >> 
> > >> The members, potential members & donors should also keep in mind that 
> Mrs. 
> > >> Bland led a covert attempt to dis-enfranchise the worldwide membership 
> from 
> > >> voting. 
> > >> 
> > >> From the footprints in the sand you can recognize what type of 
> creature 
> > >> left its mark, this administration has left a lot of interesting 
> footprints. 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> What Type of Investigation Is This??? 
> > >> We Want To Know. 
> > >> You Probably Want To Know Also. 
> > >> 
> > >> If you have inquiries...Here are the e-mails for the TSA Board. 
> > >> tb1022@... <tb1022%40sbcglobal.net> (Tim Boyd), 
> > >> neldasamarel@... <neldasamarel%40sbcglobal.net> (Nelda 
> > >> Samarel), lamajam@... <lamajam%40cox.net> (Mo Michel), 
> > >> quest@... <quest%40theosophy-ny.org> (Lyn Trotman), 
> > >> elwinbarrett@... <elwinbarrett%40comcast.net> (Elwin Barrett), 
> > >> bbland@... <bbland%40theosophical.org> (Betty Bland), 
> > >> wallacelrainey@... <wallacelrainey%40earthlink.net> (Wallace 
> 
> > >> Rainey), 
> > >> 
> > >> It will be interesting to see IF you get any type of response and what 
> the 
> > >> response is. 
> > >> 
> > >> Stay Tuned; 
> > >> 
> > >> Fraternally; 
> > >> 
> > >> William Delahunt, Secretary 
> > >> Orlando Lodge 
> > >> Theosophist@... <Theosophist%40webtv.net> 
> 
> > >> http://www.tso-orlando.org 
> > >> 
> > >> ============================== 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 
> > 
> 
> 
> 

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