Theos-Talk Archives (February 2010 Message tt00206)

lol


>
>From: "Drpsionic@aol.com" <Drpsionic@aol.com>
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Sun, 14 February, 2010 3:33:40 AM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its original lines!
>
>Â 
>I love the line about knowledge in the wrong hands. I remember when I 
>wrote my first book and someone asked me if I were worried about it falling 
>into the wrong hands and I answered with a laugh, "Nah, the wrong hands wrote 
>the book!"
>
>I will never forget the look on poor Willamay Pym's face when I said that.
>
>Chuck the Heretic
>
>www.charlescosimano .com 
>
>In a message dated 2/12/2010 5:51:21 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
>silva_cass@yahoo. com writes:
>
>Morten,
>Look what happened - those that joined the esoteric group soon began to 
>have their own ideas - and hence the breakaway. Theosophy in its infancy 
>needed to be spread to the wider community, one could only do that by 
>introducing an esoteric section that delved into the deep and hidden teachings. As 
>I said it seemed as though some of those students began to think that they 
>knew more than their teachers and the inevitable outcome of that was that 
>theosophy became diluted or altered which would have defeated the purpose 
>of the esoteric section. As they say, a little knowledge in the wrong hands!
>
>Perhaps they learnt that the theosophical message challenged their own 
>personal beliefs, and rather than change those beliefs, twisted them to fit in 
>or be accomodated by their own personal belief system. You can take a 
>horse to water, but you can't make it drink_, as they say.
>
>Cass
>
>>
>>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <
>
>_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _global-theosophy@ global-thgl_ 
>(mailto:global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk) _>
>>To: _ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ 
>(mailto:theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com) 
>>Sent: Sat, 13 February, 2010 3:53:38 AM
>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its 
>original lines!
>>
>> 
>>Dear Cass and friends
>>
>>I hold your view to be against the esoterical theosophical teachings - 
>and so does H. P. Blavatsky in her Esoteric papers as far as I can tell. 
>>The Masters have had groups for many years where they only allow certain 
>members to participate.
>>Various Chelas have also had groups where only certain members are 
>allowed.
>>
>>Are you saying that H. P. Blavatsky was wrong when she and the others 
>kicked Charles Sotheran out of the Theosophical Society?
>>Are you also saying that H. P. Blavatsky was wrong when she kicked Mabel 
>Collins out of her Esoteric Section and refused to accept everyone in her 
>Esoteric Section?
>>
>>Let me seek to explain why...
>>
>>1.
>>H. P. Blavatsky said in her Esoteric Section papers:
>>"Having omitted, however, the usual precautions of the probationary 
>period, I have but myself to thank; and therefore, it is but just that I should 
>also be myself the first to suffer for it at the hands of the inexorable 
>Karmic law. For this, ironclad as I have been made by daily and almost hourly 
>unjust attacks, I would have cared but very little; but that which I 
>deplore the mostââwith a bitterness few of you will ever realizeââis the fact 
>that such a number of thoroughly earnest, good, and sincere men and women 
>should be made to suffer for the guilt of the few. For, though but a fault 
>of omission on my part, still that guilt, as I feel, is due to my neglect. 
>Behold! my Karma appeared as a warning almost from the beginning of the E.S."
>>...
>>"I had started well. Several of those whom I knew to be entirely unfitted 
>to take the pledge have been refused from the first; but I proved unable 
>to withstand their prayers when certain of them declared to me that it was 
>their âlast chance in life.â The âpledge feverâ made short work of their 
>promises. One broke her vows only four days after signing her pledge, 
>becoming guilty of the blackest treachery and disloyalty to her HIGHER SELF. And 
>when I could no longer keep in the E.S. either herself or her friend, the 
>two convulsed the whole Society with their calumnies and falsehoods. Then it 
>was that the old wondering query, âHow is it that âpoor H.P.B.,â 
>notwithstanding the Masters at her back, and her own insight, is so evidently 
>unable to know her friends from her foes?â ran once more the round of 
>theosophical circles, both here and in America.
>>Brothers, if you will judge from appearances, and from the worldly 
>standpoint, you are right; but if you take the trouble of looking into the inner 
>causes producing outward results, you will find that you are decidedly in 
>the wrong. That you should no longer do me injustice, let me explain what I 
>mean."
>>.......
>>"[And now I sincerely hope that you willââsome of you, at leastââlearn 
>a lesson from my weakness, and show your appreciation of this by not 
>judging me too unkindly if I now change somewhat my policy. For I have to either 
>do so, or to drop the Esoteric teachings altogether, for those at any rate, 
>who will disagree with this arrangement. To avoid repeating the mistake, 
>this is what I propose doing. Each Paper will be sent as it was hitherto, 
>only it will appear as a Supplement to the Ethics and teachings which will 
>impart the rules of Discipline and the laws of Discipleship, as in the case 
>of all Probationers. ] Those who accept the new arrangement will have to 
>study the latter, or they cannot receive any more teachings from me. For, as 
>saith the Book of Discipline in the Schools of Dzyan:
>>
>>âSpeak not the mysteries to the common vulgar, nor to the casual friend, 
>or new disciple. With prudent eye to the possible consequences, keep locked 
>within your breast the teachings received, until you find a listener who 
>will understand your words and sympathize with your aspirations.â
>>This does not mean that you are at liberty to repeat what you have 
>learned to anyone whom you believe to answer _that description, but that you can 
>exchange views with your co-disciples who are pledged as you are yourself."
>>_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _http://www.katinkah _ 
>(http://www.katinkah /) esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v12/y1890_ 055.htm
>>
>>2.
>>H. P. Blavatsky said in her Esoteric Section papers:
>>"The Masters can give but little assistance to a Body not thoroughly 
>united in purpose and feeling, and which breaks its first fundamental ruleââ
>universal brotherly love, without distinction of race, creed or colour; nor 
>to a Society, many members of which pass their lives in judging, condemning, 
>and often reviling other members in a most untheosophical, not to say 
>disgraceful, manner.
>>For this reason it is now contemplated to gather the âelectâ of the T.S. 
>and to call them to action. It is only by a select group of brave souls, a 
>handful of determined men and women hungry for genuine spiritual 
>development and the acquirement of soul-wisdom, that the Theosophical Society at 
>large can be brought back to its original lines. It is through an Esoteric 
>Section aloneââi.e., a group in which all the members, even if unacquainted 
>with one another, work for each other, and by working for all work for 
>themselvesââthat the great Exoteric Society may be redeemed and made to realize 
>that in union and harmony alone lie its strength and power. The object of 
>this Section, then, is to help the future growth of the Theosophical 
>Society as a whole in the true direction, by promoting brotherly union at least 
>among the few."
>>.......
>>"As to the relations of the Masters to this Section, it may be further 
>said, paradoxically, that with Them everything is possible and everything 
>impossible. They may or may not communicate personally on the outer plane with 
>a member, and those who are continually wishing to receive âordersâ or 
>communications directly from Them on this plane, either phenomenally or 
>otherwise, will in all probability be disappointed. The Masters have no desire 
>to prove Their power or give âtestsâ to anyone whatever. And the fact that 
>a member has concluded that a crisis of some kind or other is at hand, 
>when, according to his wise opinion, the Master or M_asters ought to speak and 
>interfere personally, is no sound reason for such an outward interference. 
>"
>>_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _http://www.katinkah _ 
>(http://www.katinkah /) _ esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v12/y1890_ 052.htm
>>
>>3.
>>H. P. Blavatsky said in her Esoteric Section papers:
>>"NOTICE
>>Members of the E.S.T. receiving this Instruction will understand from its 
>receipt that they have passed out of the First Probationary Degree of the 
>E. S. T. into the Second Probationary Degree. The students in the Second 
>Degree must not discuss this Instruction with anyone still in the First 
>Degree; they must remain absolutely silent upon it, except to such persons as 
>may be notified to them as belonging to the Second or Third Degrees by Annie 
>Besant or William Q. Judge. Any breach of this rule of silence will be an 
>absolute bar to receiving any further Instructions. "
>>_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _http://www.katinkah _ 
>(http://www.katinkah /) esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v12/y1890_ 057.htm
>>
>>Do you think that the Masters would reveal all their teachings to the 
>vulgar when in a group among the chelas?
>>
>>M. Sufilight
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: Cass Silva 
>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
>>Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 1:13 AM
>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its 
>original lines!
>>
>>No, on the contrary Morten, I don't believe in any elite group being set 
>up within an organization as this promotes division of its members into the 
>'blessed' and the 'unclean'. I have no problem with study groups formed 
>around esoteric ideas but these should be open to all.
>>
>>Cass
>>
>>>
>>>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>>>Sent: Fri, 12 February, 2010 3:02:36 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its 
>original lines!
>>>
>>> 
>>>Dear Cass
>>>
>>>My views are:
>>>
>>>So you agree with me, that a secretive Esoteric Group, which requires 
>approval before membership or opportunity to be taught is achived, might be a 
>helpful idea?
>>>
>>>Some might consider the Secret Dcotrine to be a Bible. I would however 
>say, that it is quite false to compare them to have anything in common since 
>the Bible is turned into something infallible, whereas the Secret Doctrine 
>never have claimed to be infallible or to be a Bible of any dead-letter or 
>narrowminded dogmatic and fanatical interpretation.
>>>
>>>As I see it, we also have to keep the following in mind...
>>>
>>>The compassionate theosophist and the Sufi operates through the use of 
>DESIGNs and MEASURINGs. Each teaching, book, lecture, e-mail etc. etc. is a 
>DESIGN. After such a DESIGN has been presented, to the receiver(s) of it, 
>the message, reacts on the individual in various ways. Depending on the 
>reaction and the impact the message has or have - the Initiate or Initiates 
>MEASURES the receiver(s). After a while a new DESIGN will be presented, maybe 
>by another person or by other means. This teaching about DESIGN and 
>MEASURING is ages old. HPB talked a bit about it. The Sufis are called the 
>Designers, and sometimes also masons, i.e. the Eastern compassionate masons.
>>>
>>>Taken from A CURRICULUM OF A SCHOOL
>>>"Man has few alternatives in his search for truth. He may rely upon his
>>>unaided intellect, and gamble that he is capable of perceiving truth or 
>even
>>>the way to truth. This is a poor, but an attractive, gamble. Or he can
>>>gamble upon the claims of an individual or institution which claims to 
>have
>>>such a way. This gamble, too, is a poor one. Aside from a very few, 
>wo/men
>>>in general lack a sufficiently developed perception to tell them:"
>>>
>>>1. Not to trust their own unaided mentation;
>>>
>>>2. Who or what to trust.
>>>
>>>"There are, in consequence, two main schools of thought in this matter. 
>Some
>>>say 'Follow your own promptings'; the other says: 'Trust this or that
>>>intuition' intuition' <WBR>. Each is really useless to the ordinary wo/man.
>>>him use up his time."
>>>
>>>"The bitter truth is that before man can know his own inadequacy, or the
>>>competence of another man or institution, he must first learn something
>>>which will enable him to perceive both. Note well that his perception 
>itself
>>>is a product of right study; not of instinct or emotional attraction to 
>the
>>>individual, nor yet of desiring to 'go it alone'. This is 'Learning How 
>To
>>>Learn."
>>>
>>>"All this means, of course, that we are postulating here the need for
>>>preparatory study before school work takes place. We deny that a man can
>>>study and properly benefit from school work until he is equipped for it: 
>any
>>>more than a person can study space-navigation unless he has a grasp of
>>>mathematics. "
>>>
>>>"This is not to say that a man (or a woman) cannot have a sensation of
>>>truth. But the unorganized and fragmented mind which is most people's
>>>heritage tends to distort the quality and quantity of this sensation,
>>>leading to almost completely false conclusions about what can or should 
>be
>>>done."
>>>
>>>"This is not to say, either, that man cannot take part in studies and
>>>activities which impinge upon that portion of him which is connected 
>with a
>>>higher life and cognition. But the mere application of special techniques
>>>[often to everyone, regardless of their current state and requirements] 
>will
>>>not transform that man's consciousness. It will only feed into, and
>>>disturb, more or less permanently, centers of thought and feeling where 
>it
>>>does not belong. Thus it is that something which should be a blessing
>>>becomes a curse. Sugar, shall we say, for a normal person is 
>nutritionally
>>>useful. To a diabetic, it can be poison."
>>>
>>>"Therefore, before the techniques of study and development are made
>>>available to the student, he must be enabled to profit by them in the
>>>direction in which they are supposed to lead, not in short-term 
>indulgence."
>>>
>>>"Thus our curriculum takes two parts: the first is in the providing of
>>>materials of a preparatory nature, in order to equip the individual to
>>>become a student. The second is the development itself."
>>>
>>>"If we, or anybody else, supply such study or preparatory material
>>>prematurely, it will only operate on a lower level than it could. The 
>result
>>>will be harmless at best. At worst, it will condition, train, the mind of
>>>the individual to think and behave in patterns which are nothing less 
>than
>>>automatic. In this latter way one can make what seem to be converts,
>>>unwittingly play upon emotions, on lesser desires and the conditioning
>>>propensity; train people to loyalty to individuals, found and maintain
>>>institutions which seem more or less serious or constructive. But no real
>>>progress towards knowledge of the human being and the other dimension in
>>>which he partly lives will in fact be made... ... ...."
>>>
>>>Taken partly from: "Learning How to Learn" by the Afghan sufi-author 
>Idries
>>>Shah
>>>
>>>M. Sufilight
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: Cass Silva 
>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
>>>Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 2:00 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its 
>original lines!
>>>
>>>>From what HPB said, we are given only what we can absorb and assimilate. 
>No point in giving us esoteric knowledge that we are not ready for. The 
>Secret Doctrine is not unlike the Bible in that it was written for both 
>exoteric and esoteric students, so whatever level the reader is at, it provides 
>guidance.
>>>
>>>Cass
>>>
>>>Cass
>>>
>>>>
>>>>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>>>>Sent: Thu, 11 February, 2010 2:58:47 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its 
>original lines!
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>Dear Cass and friends
>>>>
>>>>My views are:
>>>>
>>>>A new Esoterical School might be necessary or a good and compassionate. 
>Remember that we emply agents in various groups and organisations. But I 
>find, that another Theosophical Society following the original lines would 
>be a much better idea, - well provided that the present Theosophical Society 
>is not able to show us that they still follow the original lines given by 
>the Masters, and why their lines or program are better than the original 
>one.
>>>>
>>>>Such a Knowledge is esoterical knowledge. And that kind of Knowledge is 
>not, (so I have been told here at Theos-talk), officially claimed by the 
>leaders Theosophical Society today. An example: Try to ask the Master 
>whether they consider their Himalayan group to be an elite group. Do you think 
>that the Masters Himalayan group will reveal all and everything esoterical to 
>everyone?
>>>>
>>>>M. Sufilight
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>From: Cass Silva 
>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 11:54 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its 
>original lines!
>>>>
>>>>I hope you are not suggesting that new esoteric schools be formed? What 
>knowledge is so esoteric that it can now only be shared by an elite group?
>>>>
>>>>Cass
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>>>>>Sent: Wed, 10 February, 2010 6:18:19 AM
>>>>>Subject: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its 
>original lines!
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>Dear friends
>>>>>
>>>>>My views are:
>>>>>
>>>>>Sometimes one would do well in reading the words given by H. P. 
>Blavatsky
>>>>>about the reason for the formation of the Esoteric Section...
>>>>>
>>>>>H. P. Blavatsky said to the members of the Esoteric Section:
>>>>>"This degree of the Esoteric Section is probationary, and its general 
>purpose is to prepare and fit the student for the study of practical 
>occultism or Raj yoga. Therefore, in this degree, the student--save in 
>exceptional cases--will not be taught how to produce physical phenomena, nor will any 
>magical powers be allowed to develop in him; nor, if possessing such 
>powers naturally, will he be permitted to exercise them before he has thoroughly 
>mastered the knowledge of SELF, of the psycho-physiologica l processes 
>(taking place on the occult plane) in the human body generally, and until he 
>has in abeyance all his lower passions and his PERSONAL SELF.
>>>>>The real Head of the Esoteric Section is a Master, of whom H. P. 
>Blavatsky is the mouthpiece for this Section. He is one of those Adepts referred 
>to in theosophical literature, and concerned in the formation of the 
>Theosophical Society. "
>>>>>. . . . . . .
>>>>>"The Theosophical Society has just entered upon the fourteenth year of 
>its existence; and if it has accomplished great, one may almost say 
>stupendous, results on the exoteric and utilitarian plane, it has proved a dead 
>failure on all those points which rank foremost among the objects of its 
>original establishment. Thus, as a "Universal Brotherhood, " or even as a 
>fraternity, one among many, it has descended to the level of all those 
>Societies whose pretensions are great, but whose names are simply masks,--nay, even 
>SHAMS. Nor can the excuse be pleaded that it was led into such an 
>undignified course owing to its having been
>>>>>impeded in its natural development, and almost extinguished, by reason 
>of the conspiracies of its enemies openly begun in 1884. Because even 
>before that date there never was that solidarity in the ranks of our Society 
>which would not only enable it to resist all external attacks, but also make 
>it possible for greater, wider, and more tangible help to be given to all 
>its members by those who are always ready to give help when we are fit to 
>receive it. When trouble arose, too many were quick to doubt and despair, and 
>few indeed were they who had worked for the Cause and not for themselves. 
>The attacks of the enemy have given the Society some discretion in the 
>conduct of its external progress, but its real internal condition has not 
>improved, and the members, in their efforts towards spiritual culture, still 
>require that help which solidarity in the ranks can alone give them the right 
>to ask. The Masters can give but little assistance to a Body not
>>>>thoroughly united in purpose and feeling, and which breaks its first 
>fundamental rule--universal brotherly love, without distinction of race, 
>creed or colour; nor to a Society, many members of which pass their lives in 
>judging, condemning, and often reviling other members in a most 
>untheosophical, not to say disgraceful, manner."
>>>>>. . . . . . .
>>>>>"For this reason it is now contemplated to gather the "elect" of the 
>T.S. and to call them to action. It is only by a select group of brave 
>souls, a handful of determined men and women hungry for genuine spiritual 
>development and the acquirement of soul-wisdom, that the Theosophical Society at 
>large can be brought back to its original lines. It is through an Esoteric 
>Section alone--i.e., a group in which all the members, even if unacquainted 
>with one another, work for each other, and by working for all work for 
>themselves-- that the great Exoteric Society may be redeemed and made to 
>realize that in union and harmony alone lie its strength and power. The object 
>of this Section, then, is to help the future growth of the Theosophical 
>Society as a whole in the true direction, by promoting brotherly union at least 
>among the few.
>>>>>All know that this end was in view when the Society was established, 
>and even in its mere unpledged ranks there was a possibility for development 
>and knowledge, until it began to show want of real union; and now it must 
>be saved from future dangers by the united aim, brotherly feeling, and 
>constant exertions of the members of this Esoteric Section. Therefore, anyone 
>who has signed the pledge without realizing this is earnestly recommended to 
>reconsider his position, and to withdraw unless he is prepared to devote 
>himself to the carrying out of this purpose. Once offered the grand example 
>of practical altruism, of the noble lives of those who learn to master the 
>great knowledge but to help others, and who strive to acquire powers but to 
>place them at the service of their fellow-men, the whole _theosophical 
>community may yet be steered into action, and led to follow the example set 
>before them.
>>>>>The Esoteric Section is thus "set apart" for the salvation of the 
>whole Society, and its course from its first steps will be an arduous and 
>uphill work for its members, though a great reward lies behind the many 
>obstacles once they are overcome.
>>>>>_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _http://www.katinkah _ 
>(http://www.katinkah /) esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v7/yxxxx_ 019.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>M. Sufilight asks and comments:
>>>>>I ask your compassionate hearts as honest Seekers after Truth :
>>>>>
>>>>>Do you my dear readers understand that, the Esoteric Section was 
>according to H. P. Blavatsky created in 1888 so that "the Theosophical Society 
>at large can be brought back to its original lines"; the lines openly 
>deviated from in 1884?
>>>>>
>>>>>Did this imply turning it towards a more or less blurred or openly 
>declared political involvement à la A. O. Hume - National Congress of India? I 
>would clearly say no, and no a thousand times!
>>>>>
>>>>>Did this imply asserting a Messiah in the flesh as the World Teacher 
>of the Age (The Maitreya) as a dogma or propagandized doctrine to follow? I 
>would clearly say no, and no a thousand times!
>>>>>
>>>>>Did this imply rejecting the view that "No Theosophist should be 
>silent when he hears evil reports or slanders spread about the Society, or 
>innocent persons, whether they be his colleag_ues or outsiders. " (The Key to 
>the Theosophist, 2ed., 1890, p. 250)? I would clearly say no, and no a 
>thousand times!
>>>>>
>>>>>Did it only imply this with reagard to physically present humans or 
>did it also imply it with regard deceased ones? I would clearly say both 
>issues count, because people not living in the physical are present in our 
>universe!
>>>>>
>>>>>M. Sufilight
>>>>>
>>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Send instant messages to your online friends _ 
>(http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _http://au.messenger _ (http://au.messenger /) _ .yahoo.com 
>>>>
>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
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>_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) 
>
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>
>lol


      

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