Theos-Talk Archives (December 2009 Message tt00182)

If there is even the slightest doubt that I imply you are using pseudonyms,
I apologize.

I am referring to others who have used pseudonyms in Internet discussions.

Usually the depth of detailed knowledge displayed by the pseudonymers reveal
that they are highly likely well known members or even leaders who dare not
speak up under their own names and take responsibility. This is a usual
trick used to protect their public mask and not reveal their real
personality behind the mask, which may shock the reader, if they found out.

All the intense discussions on Internet started with the attempt to defeat
the sitting president by alleging that she is mentally and physically sick.
Of course we all know the subsequent events. Details are in the public
archives of theos-talk.

As every politician knows, even in today's world of TV and Internet and
other high tech communication , anyone running for any office, need to meet
with the people who elect the office holder. TS is no exception. India
having the largest membership, it is obvious that the presidential
candidates need to visit the lodges in India and get to know the members.
Members need to put a face to a name and when voting time comes it works.

We all recall how John Coats won the election simply because he had visited
the lodges in India and people have seen him. If he had just sat at home and
rested on his past experience or other accomplishments or his wealth, no one
would have known him and one of the other well known candidates from India
would have been elected.

I hope anyone who is aspiring to run for the office of the president when
that becomes vacant, understands this fundamental fact and start traveling
now in India. Travel in India now is easy and inexpensive and you can also
experience the generosity of the lodges towards visitors.

If anyone has any clever schemes to use some trickery to get the job through
back door, they better remember what happened last year and with the help of
Internet, many members worldwide are watching and are vigilant.

MKR


On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 4:07 AM, preethi muthiah
<seeker_preethi@yahoo.com>wrote:

>
>
> Have a heart, MKR. I have never used a pseudonym on this or any other site
> and I have been telling you all the way it is at Adyar and the rules that
> are broken or manipulated by the President in order for her continue on that
> post, and yet my words have been ignored, disbelieved and my integrity
> questioned.
>
> So I am sure the pseudonym is not the problem. The problem basically is
> whether or not the information being given out is suited to or convenient
> for the President and her aides. When the information given is to their
> advantage it is accepted, praised and made a hue and cry about. When the
> information given is to their disadvantage -- as bringing to light the
> various hypocrisies, atrocities, corruptions etc. of the Presidential party
> -- then the information is disbelieved.
>
> Fraternally
>
> Preethi
>
> --- On Sat, 26/12/09, MKR <mkr777@gmail.com <mkr777%40gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> From: MKR <mkr777@gmail.com <mkr777%40gmail.com>>
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Election of the Vice-President & related issues -
> Contradict
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Saturday, 26 December, 2009, 7:11 AM
>
>
>
>
> One never knows if the info is untrue, half true or just simply false,
> until
>
> there is corroborative confirmation. That is one of the fundamental issues
>
> with info coming from pseudonymers.
>
> Also when information comes from non-pseudonymers, our past experience with
>
> the individuals gives a degree of confidence and trust in the info being
>
> true.
>
> Usually the pseudonymers sign on and post some messages and disappear.
>
> MKR
>
> On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 10:41 AM, <Drpsionic@aol. com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have no problem with psuedonyms. If the information is true, it does
>
> > not matter under which name it comes from.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Chuck the Heretic
>
> >
>
> > _www.charlescosiman o.com
>
>
> >
>
> > In a message dated 12/24/2009 7:38:32 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>
> > mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com> writes:
>
> >
>
> > I will leave it to the reader to make up their minds about the pseudonym
>
> > issue. Many times, it is used by people to keep their personal reputation
>
> > mask clear. Because, once you write something with your own name, you
> have
>
> > to standby what one writes.
>
> >
>
> > The disenfranchisement issue is very very serious. If the coup had
>
> > succeeded, we will not be talking here, because there is nothing to talk
>
> > about and all information would have been shut like a clam shell. What is
>
> > more important is that members were able to make up their minds about the
>
> > Quartet who tried the ultra secret attempt. This issue is not going to go
>
> > away, because it is an extremely serious issue with the future of TS and
>
> > its
>
> > members.
>
> >
>
> > MKR
>
> >
>
> > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 7:28 PM, preethi muthiah
>
> >
>
> > <
>
> >
>
> > _ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _seeker_preethi@ seeker_pr_
>
> > (mailto:seeker_preethi@ yahoo.com <seeker_preethi% 40yahoo.com> )
> _>wrote:
>
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > MKR,
>
> > >
>
> > > Might I be permitted to say here that the Message is more important
> than
>
> > > the Messenger. The issue is not so much "who sent the message" than
> what
>
> > the
>
> > > Contents of the message tell us about the current administration, or
>
> > shall I
>
> > > say, Misadministration?
>
> > >
>
> > > Why does it not occur to you -- a seeker after the Truth -- that people
>
> > > must need to use pseudonyms for FEAR of facing the repercussions of
> their
>
> > > declarations? And what, O Truth Seeker, is FEAR doing in an
> organization
>
> > > that declares TRUTH as its Motto? Doesn't the contradiction and
>
> > dichotomy of
>
> > > it hit you, MKR?
>
> > >
>
> > > Why is there SO MUCH FEAR in the Theosophical Society? Why is there the
>
> > > FEAR of the President? Where did that FEAR take root?
>
> > >
>
> > > Fraternally
>
> > >
>
> > > Preethi
>
> > >
>
> > > --- On Fri, 25/12/09, MKR <_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/)
>
> > _mkr777@gmail. mkr <_mkr777%40gmail. mkr>_ (mailto:mkr777@gmail.
> com<mkr777%40gmail. com>)
>
> > _ <mkr777%40gmail. mkr>> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > From: MKR <_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _mkr777@gmail.mkr<_mkr777%40gmail. mkr>_
>
> >
>
> > (mailto:mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com>) _ <mkr777%40gmail.
> mkr>>
>
>
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Election of the Vice-President & related
> issues
>
> > -
>
> > > Contradictions & Question that
>
> > > To: _ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos-
> t_
>
> > (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>)
>
>
> > <theos-talk% theos-talk% <WBthe>
>
> > > Date: Friday, 25 December, 2009, 6:41 AM
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Thanks for posting.
>
> > >
>
> > > It would be interesting to know who is the writer of the message.
>
> > >
>
> > > Theosophical society members around the world are a small community and
>
> > as
>
> > >
>
> > > such most know each other, especially if they are active.
>
> > >
>
> > > Also many times, when you look at the depth of knowledge shown by the
>
> > >
>
> > > writers using pseudonyms, it is usually someone very close to the
>
> > >
>
> > > administration and/or the leaders, past and present.
>
> > >
>
> > > Persons who stand up with their own names behind messages are highly
>
> > >
>
> > > regarded because they stake their reputation in what they say and
>
> > displays
>
> > >
>
> > > the integrity of the person.
>
> > >
>
> > > On the other hand, you cannot ignore the identity from the message.
>
> > >
>
> > > Of late many theosophists are fine tuning the techniques of hiding
> behind
>
> > >
>
> > > pseudonyms and claim that message is important.
>
> > >
>
> > > It would be interesting to see any responses.
>
> > >
>
> > > MKR
>
> > >
>
> > > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 6:32 PM, seeker__preethi <seeker_preethi@
>
> > yahoo.com
>
> > > >wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Dear All,
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > I received the below via email and thought I would pass it on to
>
> > > TheosTalk
>
> > >
>
> > > > as well. Lots of things to ponder about, don't you think?
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Fraternally
>
> > >
>
> > > > Preethi
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > From: Brotherhood Of Theosophy [mailto:brotherhood From: Br_
>
> > (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _phy@gmail.com <_phy%40gmail.com><_phy%40gmail. com>_
>
> > (mailto:phy@gmail.com <phy%40gmail.com> <phy%40gmail. com>)
>
> > _<brotherhoodoftheo s ophy%40gmail. com>
>
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > ]
>
> > >
>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:56 AM
>
> > >
>
> > > > To: brotherhoodoftheoso phy
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Subject: Election of the Vice-President & related issues -
>
> > Contradictions
>
> > > &
>
> > >
>
> > > > Question that deserve answers
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Election of the Vice-President & related issues - Contradictions &
>
> > > Question
>
> > >
>
> > > > that deserve answers
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > 1. Preethi in _ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _http://groups. _
>
>
> > (http://groups. /) _ yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 53509
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > How was Linda Oliveira elected as Vice President of the TS BEFORE the
>
> > >
>
> > > > General Council meeting of December 2008 could be held? In that
>
> > meeting a
>
> > >
>
> > > > vote was taken to ELECT her as Vice President of the TS, while
>
> > actually
>
> > > the
>
> > >
>
> > > > international President had already made that announcement in the
>
> > >
>
> > > > Theosophist of December 2008, which issue of the Theosophist was
>
> > printed
>
> > > in
>
> > >
>
> > > > the Month of November 2008 -- ONE MONTH before the GENERAL COUNCIL
>
> > > MEETING.
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > 2. Keith Fisher at _ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/)
>
>
> > _http://groups. _ (http://groups. /) yahoo.com/ group/theos-
> talk/message/
>
> >
>
> > > 53513
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Dear Preethi
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > The result of the Vice President election could be printed in the
>
> > > December
>
> > >
>
> > > > issue of the Theosophist because the election was completed in
> October
>
> > > 2008.
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > The President nominated Linda Oliveira for Vice President on 20
>
> > September
>
> > >
>
> > > > 2008, the closing date for voting was 20 October, and the result was
>
> > > first
>
> > >
>
> > > > declared on 29 October 2008. As International Secretary, I presented
> to
>
> > > the
>
> > >
>
> > > > General Council meeting on 25 December 2008, a document showing how
> GC
>
> > >
>
> > > > members had voted and the actual voting slips for confirmation of the
>
> > > votes
>
> > >
>
> > > > cast. These were scrutinized by the GC members present and found to
> be
>
> > >
>
> > > > correct.
>
> > >
>
> > > > Keith
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > 3. The actual minutes of the General Council Meeting of 25 December
>
> > 2008
>
> > >
>
> > > > states:
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > "The voting slips were scrutinized by some of the members of the
>
> > General
>
> > >
>
> > > > Council and Mrs. Linda Oliveira was declared elected as the
>
> > > Vice-President
>
> > >
>
> > > > of the Society."
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > 4. Rule 11
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > `Within three months of assuming office the President shall nominate
>
> > the
>
> > >
>
> > > > Vice President subject to confirmation by the General Council.
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > 5. By every one's own admission, election was required to be
> confirmed
>
> > by
>
> > >
>
> > > > the General Council!
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > 6. Question that deserves answer
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > If a confirmation was required in the 25 December 2008 General
> Council
>
> > >
>
> > > > meeting, and because minutes of this meeting also states that Linda
>
> > > Oliveira
>
> > >
>
> > > > was declared elected only on 25 December 2008 how is it fair and
> honest
>
> > > to
>
> > >
>
> > > > declare on 29 October 2008 that she is the Vice-President and to make
>
> > the
>
> > >
>
> > > > announcement in the December month's Theosophist which was actually
>
> > > printed
>
> > >
>
> > > > in November 2008? By such action, the General Council has been
> treated
>
> > > with
>
> > >
>
> > > > contempt and it is an insult to the General Council members.
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > 7. The violations of rules in election (?) of additional members of
>
> > the
>
> > >
>
> > > > General Council are also shameful and reflect the manipulations and
>
> > utter
>
> > >
>
> > > > cynical contempt for rules, procedures, for ordinary members and
>
> > General
>
> > >
>
> > > > Council members of The Theosophical Society.
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > All functions of Linda as vice-president and of the additional
> general
>
> > >
>
> > > > council members elected (?) in 2008 cannot be treated legal.
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Reply by Govert Schuller 18 hours ago
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Dear Adyarwoman,
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > This issue only looks like a non-sinister technicality.
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > What was the exact text of the December 2008 Theosophist regarding
>
> > Mrs.
>
> > >
>
> > > > Oliveira's status?
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Probably she should have been called "Vice President Elect" from
>
> > October
>
> > >
>
> > > > 29, 2008 till December 25, 2008, when she was declared "Vice
> President"
>
> > >
>
> > > > based on the acceptance of the election results by the GC.
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Reply by adyarwoman 9 hours ago
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > It is not 'non-sinister technically. ' It is sinister. The December
>
> > 2008
>
> >
>
> > >_
>
> > > > issue of The Theosophist printed in last week of November 2008,
> carries
>
> > > the
>
> > >
>
> > > > following 2 information:
>
> > >
>
> > > > Page 85: "Mrs. Linda Oliveira was elected Vice-President with effect
>
> > from
>
> > >
>
> > > > 20 October 2008."
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Keith Fisher at _ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _http://groups._
>
>
> > (http://groups. /) _ yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/
>
> > > 53513
>
> > >
>
> > > > says "the result was first declared on 29 October 2008" , (9 days
>
> > later!)
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > The same issue of The Theosophist says on the 2nd Page in the list of
>
> > >
>
> > > > Presidents, Vice-Presidents etc, "Vice-President: Mrs. Linda
> Oliveira".
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > This was a sinister attempt to prevent the existing Vice-President
>
> > from
>
> > >
>
> > > > attending the General Council meeting.
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > This also makes a mockery of the procedure of confirmation and hence
> an
>
> > >
>
> > > > insult and contempt to the General Council members.
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Reply by Govert Schuller 7 hours ago
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > I see. That's why I asked for the text. Thank you.
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > For full information, visit
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > _ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _http://theosophical _
>
>
> > (http://theosophical /) _ .ning.com/ forum/topics/ the-ts-in-
> crisis-new?
>
> > > id=2060685% 3ATopic%3A40419& page=-1#comments
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> > >
>
> > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
>
> > > _ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _http://in.yahoo. http_
>
>
> > (http://in.yahoo. com/) _
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> >
>
> > _ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/)
>
>
> >
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
> http://in.yahoo.com/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]