Theos-Talk Archives (December 2009 Message tt00152)

Morten,
I've been looking to solve this mystery.The only thing I have found, so-far isÂon the same site you referrenced, many Qabalists, and the Faithful of
Basra, are therein said often to regard the Supernal Triad as a unit. If you notice, the second in descent is the Anima Mundi or World-Soul. This 
seems to me further evidence of a group, regarding the Supernal triad as a unit, emanating the Seven manifested Sephiroth, thus an Ogdoad of
emanation. I am not sure why this is done, in such an instance. There must be some practicle reason for such a series of emanations. Perhaps
this may be a method, better suited to some forms of Practical Magic, per-se. Maybe it is inappropriate for me to make such a statement, as
I am not sure of the validity of my comment (magic,etc.) but, the site does state the consideration of the first three Sephiroth, as a unit.Otherwise they
would still equal the typical Pythagorean-style, ten-fold emanation. Perhaps the 7-vs-10 re: magic could've been classified, contrariwise.
peace to you,
brad




________________________________
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups..com
Sent: Wed, December 23, 2009 6:55:03 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:

 
Dear Brad

My views are:

Known Adepts or initiates are sometimes later found out to be less Adept and less Initiated.

I do respect the Kabala and everything on this globe. But I do find the teachings of the present day Hebrew Kabala and the present day Rosicrucians to be distorted, and H. P. Blavatsky said the same and proved it in her Secret Doctrine vol. I - and - to a certain extend in other writings of hers.

My affiliations with Islam are assumed by you. I am just as much a Muslim as I am a Heathen or a Christian. But I prefer the core of the esoteric Buddhistic and Adwaita ethics, if you would like to know. And I do this because these teachings systems are much more capeable of revealing the truth to the Seekers on this globe in our time. - How ever I do also like esoteric Sufism and non-fanatical views.

1.
In the beelow you will find that The Jewish Encyclopaedia supports the view, that there originally were eight Sefiroth.

>>> THE KABALA or CABALA <<<
Influence of Greco-Arabic Philosophy.

"The "Faithful Brothers of Basra," as well as the Neoplatonic Aristotelians of the ninth century, have left their marks on the Cabala.. The brotherhood taught, similarly to early Gnosticism, that God, the highest Being, exalted above all differences and contrasts, also surpassed everything corporeal and spiritual; hence, the world could only be explained by means of emanations. The graduated scale of emanations was as follows: (1) the creating spirit (ÎÎáÏ); (2) the directing spirit, or the world-soul; (3) primal matter; (4) active nature, a power proceeding from the world-soul; (5) the abstract body, also called secondary matter; (6) the world of the spheres; (7) the elements of the sublunary world; and (8) the world of minerals, plants, and animals composed of these elements. These eight form, together with God, the absolute One, who is in and with everything, the scale of the nine primal substances, corresponding to the nine primary numbers and
 the nine spheres. These nine numbers of the "Faithful Brothers" (compare De Boer, "Gesch. der Philosophie im Islam," p. 84; Dieterici, "Die Sogenannte Theologie des Aristoteles, " p. 38; idem, "Weltseele," p. 15) have been changed by a Jewish philosopher of the middle of the eleventh century into ten, by counting the four elements not as a unit, but as two ("Torat ha-Nefesh," ed. Isaac BroydÃ, pp. 70, 75; compare, also, Guttmann, in "Monatsschrift, " xlii. 450)."
http://www.jewishen cyclopedia. com/view. jsp?artid= 1&letter= C#66

2.
>>> THE CHALDEAN-ORIENTAL KABALA or CABALA <<<

Shrivatsa - The Endless Knot - Flow of Time
It can look somewhat like a fleur-de-lis, an endless knot, a flower or diamond shaped symbol.
The endless knot has been described as "an ancient symbol representing the interweaving of the Spiritual path, the flowing of Time and Movement within That Which is Eternal. All existence, it says, is bound by time and change, yet ultimately rests serenely within the Divine and the Eternal."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrivatsa
Shrivatsa (photo)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EndlessKnot03d.png
Shigatse - Tashilhunpo Monastery - Shrivatsa - Endless Knot (big photo) 
http://www.pbase. com/robburvill/ image/30526901

3. A few more words by Blavatsky.

Kabalist.
"No two of them, however, agreed upon the origin of the Kabala, the Zohar, Sepher Yetzirah, etc. Some show it as coming from the Biblical Patriarchs, Abraham, and even Seth; others from Egypt, others again from Chaldea. The system is certainly very old; but like all the rest of systems, whether religious or philosophical, the Kabala is derived directly from the primeval Secret Doctrine of the East; through the Vedas, the Upanishads, Orpheus and Thales, Pythagoras and the Egyptians."
(TS Glossary - HPB)
http://www.phx- ult-lodge. org/aijk. htm#k

H. P. Blavatsky said:
"Zend-Avesta (Pahl.). The general name for the sacred books of the Parsis, fire or sun worshippers, as they are ignorantly called." . . . . . . . "Zend means âa commentary or explanationâ, and Avesta (from the old Persian ÃbashtÃ, âthe lawâ. (See Darmsteter.) As the translator of the VendÃdÃd remarks in a foot note (see int. xxx.): âwhat it is customary to call âthe Zend languageâ, ought to be named âthe Avesta languageâ, the Zend being no language at all and if the word be used as the designation of one, it can be rightly applied only to the Pahlaviâ. But then, the Pahlavi itself is only the language into which certain original portions of the Avesta are translated. What name should be given to the old Avesta language, and particularly to the âspecial dialect, older than the general language of the Avestaâ (Darmst.), in which the five Ghthas in the Yasna are written? To this day the Orientalists are mute upon the subject. Why
 should not the Zend be of the same family, if not identical with the Zen-sar, meaning also the speech explaining the abstract symbol, or the âmystery language,â used by Initiates?"
http://www.phx- ult-lodge. org/ATUVWXYZ. htm#z
http://www.archive. org/stream/ theosophicalglo0 0meadgoog# page/n396/ mode/1up/ search/Zend

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Brad Crawford 
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:12 PM
Subject: Theos-World Re:

Morten,
"Who is in possesion of ...knowledge? " I would not take this transaction to indicate ONLY those of the "snowy range". The Divine Wisdom has existed before there 
was such a range.There have been many possessed of the sacred Wisdom, who have not been there. But, I certainly would not be one to belittle the spiritual work
that has come forth from the Himalayas.
"Then,from eternity,with Ten SayingsYou gouged
With Scribe,script, and scroll-Ten,
You finished them in six directions,
Ten words."
Rabbi Elazer Kalir
Ten,not nine.Ten, not eleven are the Holy Sephiroth.. But, of course I could quote volumes from sacred Hebrew sources, and if you are of the opinion that
these sources are illigitimate, as they are not secret Chaldean works, there is little point.

I am not sure how,philosophically . the ogdoad is a better representative, symbolically than the decad. I have not yet looked into the sites you posted , but I will.
I have some works from various Ogdoadic traditions.
I am unfamiliar with a system based on eight Sephiroth. In my mind I can see how there may be something to it. I was thinking of the ancient symbol of the
eight-spoked wheel, but I understand that to be a symbol of Akasha, more or less. The Pythagoreans, Neo-Platonists, Qaballists, have used a ten-fold 
division of Being, as it is mathematically sound philosophy. I wish I could consult Theon of Smyrna, but I was unable to purchase a copy of his book:
Mathmatics Useful for Understanding Plato. Very expensive.

You have given me much to think about. but...

Of what value is this super-esoteric Chaldean system, if virtually no one has ever heard of it. I have not been introduced to this system, through the esoteric
instructions of my school but, I am truly not a high-Initiate, so...I don't know. I do know the one who founded our order was a genuine Initiate or Adept
whos teachings I trust.But I am excited to look into your comments.

May I be so bold as to ask if you do not respect the Qabalah of the Rosicrucians or Hebrew Initiates, because of your affiliations or sympathy with Islamic
traditions? I hope that is not out of line but, also if there may not be something to it? Just curious.

in L.V.X.
brad

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