Theos-Talk Archives (November 2009 Message tt00106)

Dear John and friends

My views are:

Thanks, I guess.
But, which one out of the many hundreds are you referring to?

- - -

1.

What I got hold on was this one: "Philosophy of Saint Ramalingam" by Dr. M. Shanmugam - online as E-book PDF at http://www.vallalar.org (Here we also find a number of E-books available online. For instance a view spanning 362 pages about Ramalinga, Theosophical Society, amd others and the aftermath - in "The Universal Vision of Saint Ramalinga").

"During that latter part of his visible earthly career, he often expressed his bitter sorrow for this sad state of things, and repeatedly exclaimed:

You are not fit to become members of this Universal Brotherhood. The real members of that Brotherhood are living far away, towards the North of India. you do not listen to me. you do not follow the principles of my teachings. You seem to be determined not to be convinced by me. Yet the time is not far off, when persons from Russia, America (these two countries were always named) and other foreign lands will come to India and preach to you this same doctrine of Universal Brotherhood. Then only, will you know and appreciate the grand truths, that I am now vainly trying to ask you accept. You will soon find that the brothers who live in the far north will work a great many wonders in India, and thus confer incalculable benefits on this our country."
("Philosophy of Saint Ramalingam" by Dr. M. Shanmugam )



I have been studying the issue a bit more and reached the following view.
The above is only saying that Ramalingam foretold the establishing of the Theosophical Society in certian vague and yet quite clear terms. But it also mentions, that he foretold this event some years before 1873. How clearly this was expressed the first time is not mentioned, but from what can digest from my own un-documented sources, is that he said the same some years before 1873; and some sources mention it to be ten years in advance, and I find them to be quite reliable myself. But in 1873 it can without reasonable doubt be assertained that Ramalingam foretold the establisment af the Theosophical Society. This was a few years before it actually happened, and it shows some of us that he was in contact with the Masters of Himavat. - And It is also known, by some Seekers, that the Masters are able to predict other events even in the more distant future based on their knowledge about the planets karmic patterns.

A very interesting issue indeed. 

But I have not yet seen any clear info about, that Ramalinga predicted a near future arrival of a World Teacher within a theosophical society or a group of Universal Brotherhood. Anyone on that?

But perhaps there is something to it in the rumour mentioned by his disciple Thuzhuvoor Velayutha Mudaliar: "When Ramalinga vanished, he said he would come again. But he did not indicate anything about the time of the coming and the occasion." 
(Se "The Universal Vision of Saint Ramalinga" (PDF) at http://www.vallalarorphanage.org.my/SaintRamalinga.pdf) - And some are claiming that this coming was Gandhiji (1869-1948), but I cannot confirm this. - And also from the above PDF: "Thuzhuvoor Velayutha Mudaliar who was with Saint Ramalinga when he disappeared, declares that he stated that he would come again and until that time, apart from India, he would strive for the progress of the world in Europe and America." - But that can cover many a person livning since 1874. - And when I compare J. Krishnamurti with Ramalinga (and even Gandhiji) I have many doubts about whether J. Krishnamurti was teaching the same kind of Universal Brotherhood as Ramalinga and Blavatsky, if at all.

The above PDF also refers to that H. P. Blavatsky in one of here Confidential notes should have said: "Ramalinga is a Saint".
What note and when is not given.


- - -

2.

I get the feeling that those TS members, who maybe too over-warmly support Ramalinga in an orthodox manner perhaps would be more well served, if they carefully concidered to listen much more to Blavatsky words than to their own orthodox views on Ramalingas teachings. Because Ramalinga himself said that the real universal Brotherhood is in the far North, and that the foreigners (from Russia and America) would come and tell them about this.


Because the above informations about Ramalinga does not at all change the facts 
mentioned in H. P. Blavatsky's article written as early as 1882:

NOTES ON SOME ÃRYAN-ARHAT ESOTERIC TENETS
"THE Tibetan esoteric Buddhist doctrine teaches that Prakriti is cosmic matter, out of which all visible forms are produced; ÃkÃsha is also cosmic matter, but still more imponderable, its spirit, as it were; Prakriti being the body or substance, and ÃkÃsha-Shakti its soul or energy.

Prakriti, SvabhÃvat or ÃkÃsha is Space, as the Tibetans have it; Space filled with whatsoever substance or no substance at all, i.e., with substance so imponderable as to be only metaphysically conceivable. Brahman, then, would be the germ thrown into the soil of that field, and Shakti, that mysterious energy or force which develops it, and which is called by the Buddhist Arahats of Tibet, Fohat.

"That which we call Form (RÃpa) is not different from that which we call Space (ShÃnyatÃ) . . . Space is not different from Form. Form is the same as Space; Space is the same as Form. And so with the other Skandhas, whether VedanÃ, or SanjÃa, or SanskÃra or VijÃana they are each the same as their opposite." (Book of Sin-king or the "Heart SÃtra." Chinese translation of the MahÃ-PrajÃÃ-PÃramitÃ-Hridaya-SÃtra; chapter on the "Avalokiteshvara," or Manifested Buddha.)

So that, the Ãryan and Tibetan or Arhat doctrines agree perfectly in substance, differing but in names given and the way of putting it, a distinction resulting from the fact that the VedÃntin BrÃhmans believe in Parabrahman, a deific power, impersonal though it may be, while the Buddhists entirely reject it."
.......
"Were our Orientalists to know more of them, and compare the ancient Babylonian Bel or Baal worship with the rites of the Bhons, they would find an undeniable connection between the two. It is out of the question to begin an argument here to prove the origin of the aborigines of Tibet as connected with one of the three great races which superseded each other in Babylonia, whether we call them the Akkadians (invented by F. Lenormant), or the primitive Turanians, Chaldees and Assyrians. Be it as it may, there is reason to call the Trans-HimÃlayan esoteric doctrine ChaldÃo-Tibetan. And, when we remember that the Vedas cameâagreeably to all traditionsâfrom the Mansarova Lake in Tibet, and the BrÃhmans themselves from the far north, we are justified in looking on the esoteric doctrines of every people who once had or still have them, as having proceeded from one and the same source, and to thus call it the "Ãryan-ChaldÃo-Tibetan" doctrine, or Universal Wisdom Religion. "Seek for the Lost Word among the hierophants of Tartary, China and Tibet," was the advice of Swedenborg, the seer."
http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/NotesOnSomeAryanArhatEsotericTenets.htm








M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 9:44 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: As early as 1889, Blavatsky told about the World Teacher?


    
  Morten, 
  Here is a Google Book Listing in regards to Ramalinga, on the list you can see specific books that mentions the very topic of this thread, it may help locate. 

  Google Book Listing Ramalinga (Theosophical contact with Ramalinga) 

  >>> http://books.google.com/books?q=Ramalinga+Prophecies&btnG=Search+Books<<< 

  Vallahar of the Golden Body was a most interesting example. 
  Regards, 
  John 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 9, 2009 11:07:01 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: As early as 1889, Blavatsky told about the World Teacher? 

  Dear friends 

  My views are: 

  I did not know that Ramalingam already expressed his prophecies in 1850. Can anyone document that? 

  There have through centuries been prophecies about a coming World Teacher. In this there is nothing new. 
  Many a village or city have had such prophecies through the centuries in India. 

  Did Ramalingam make any clear references to where and who this world teacher would be? 
  We can read that he talked about Mahatmas in the far North - (Himalayas). 

  COMING EVENTS FORETOLD (Comment by H. P. Blavatsky - on the prophecy on the formation of the TS) 
  "This is one of those cases of previous foretelling of a coming event, which is least of all open to suspicion of bad faith. The honourable character of the witness, the wide publicity of his Guruâs announcements, and the impossibility that he could have got from public rumour, or the journals of the day, any intimation that the Theosophical Society would be formed and would operate in Indiaâall these conspire to support the inference that Ramalingam Yogi was verily in the counsels of those who ordered us to found the Society. In March, 1873, we were directed to proceed from Russia to Paris. In June, we were told to proceed to the 
  Page 137 

  United States, where we arrived July 6th.* This was the very time when Ramalingam was most forcibly prefiguring the events which should happen. In October, 1874, we received an intimation to go to Chittenden, Vermont, where, at the famous homestead of the Eddy family, Colonel Olcott was engaged in making his investigationsânow so celebrated in the annals of Spiritualismâof the so-called âmaterialization of Spirits.â November, 1875, the Theosophical Society was founded, and it was not until 1878, that the correspondence began with friends in India, which resulted in the transfer of the Societyâs Headquarters to Bombay in February, 1879. " 
  http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v4/y1882_066.htm 

  M. Sufilight 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: MKR 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 6:59 PM 
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: As early as 1889, Blavatsky told about the World Teacher? 

  I have been following the predictions of Saint Ramalingam. Could you give 
  some reference about his prediction of the coming of World Teacher. Nothing 
  surprises me because, he knew of the founding of TS and move of TS to India 
  even before HPB knew about the founding of the TS. I would not be surprised 
  if he himself was a great Initiate because outside the Brotherhood this 
  information was not known at the time the Saint lived. 

  Also could you give a reference to Radha Burnier's statement regarding the 
  Saint foretelling WT comng. 

  MKR 

  On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:59 AM, sadhak1008 < whyviswanath@yahoo.com > wrote: 

  > 
  > 
  > MKR, 
  > 
  > There are a few predictions about the World Teacher, some more detailed 
  > than others. Historically speaking, the Tamil saint Ramalinga Swami was the 
  > first person to predict not only about the coming of the World Teacher, but 
  > also about the formation of the TS which he described as an organization 
  > that would be formed by two foreigners and set up in Adyar for spreading 
  > brotherhood. He further added that from this organization would emerge the 
  > next WT who would spread this message all over the world. Though he stated 
  > this around 1850 it has been long ignored by both the TS and even the K 
  > foundations. Neither HPB, AB, or CWL were really the originators of the WT 
  > prophecy. May be they were not aware of the swami and did not know Tamil to 
  > realize the earlier prophecy. 
  > 
  > Thankfully, Radha Burnier finally acknowledged this publicly a few years 
  > back. You know, there is nothing higher than truth, so what if it takes 150 
  > years?!! 
  > 
  > Viswanath 
  > 
  > 
  > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, MKR 
  > <mkr777@...> wrote: 
  > > 
  > > As I recall, during her life time, no one knows if HPB knew of the Coming 
  > of 
  > > the World Teacher and even if she knew, according to Besant, she gave no 
  > > hints even to those most closely connected with her. 
  > > 
  > > MKR 
  > > 
  > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 6:34 AM, Spirituality <mail@...>wrote: 
  > 
  > > 
  > > > 
  > > > 
  > > > Good question. Lutyens is not generally very reliable when it comes to 
  > old 
  > > > style theosophy, so she probably got it out of the besant leadbeater 
  > rumor 
  > > > mill. Perhaps some old article by one or the other. 
  > > > 
  > > > It's not in the Inner Group Teachings, which means that if Blavatsky 
  > did 
  > > > tell some of her students this, it was in an informal setting, not in 
  > the 
  > > > setting of a formal studygroup. We're in the same bag on this one as on 
  > the 
  > > > Bowen Notes: said to be a report of something Blavatsky said, but we 
  > don't 
  > > > have the sources to back it up. Nor are we likely to get to such 
  > sources. 
  > > > 
  > > > That isn't to say it's certain to be untrue. 
  > > > 
  > > > One thing we do know: IF Blavatsky talked about such a teacher, as 
  > Besant 
  > > > said, she expected him later than Krishnamurti came. 
  > > > 
  > > > Katinka 
  > > > 
  > 
  > 
  > 

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