Theos-Talk Archives (November 2009 Message tt00076)

Dear Morten and friends,

It still amazes me that those very words of HPB are being today flaunted to hide one's own unwillingness to grow and change and transform. An organization works best when all its members have the same or similar intention towards the goal or Object. That goal or Object of the TS is today being dismembered by the very people who have been elected in place -- by all of us -- to protect and safeguard it.

We have come so far away from HPB that looking back we cannot even see where we lost our way. So perhaps, we need to start looking within and test ourselves against her words and the words of the Masters of the Wisdom to create an organization of evolving souls rather than the parasitical one we now have in existence.

Where is the unity in the Theosophical Organization, Morten? The President of the TS has divided us into little parts to suit her own need for power, such that to again become a united whole, we will have to move away and out and find the light within before we can become a Whole again.

Fraternally
Preethi

--- On Fri, 6/11/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:

From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World A New Theosophical Society???
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 6 November, 2009, 9:11 PM







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      Dear Preethi and friends



My views are:



I will in the below, as a response to your amazement, forward my own views and the words by H. P. blavatsky, which I also support.



Preethi wrote:

"It amazes me that people still continue or perhaps insist on thinking that organizations can solve anything in the universe!!! Mostly organizations of individuals take away from the light within oneself; strange but true"

...

"The 'togetherness' of ignorance is comforting to many...."



M. Sufilight:

I will have to protest a bit and disagree with such a view, because it seems that the original Programe of TS is also accused of something like that - ie. that togetherness creates ignorance (???). 



Let us hear what Blavatsky said about the issue in 1886...



H. P. Blavatsky said:

" "Theosophy teaches self-culture . . . and not control," we are told. Theosophy teaches mutual-culture before self-culture to begin with. Union is strength. It is by gathering many theosophists of the same way of thinking into one or more groups, and making them closely united by the same magnetic bond of fraternal unity and sympathy that the objects of mutual development and progress in Theosophical thought may be best achieved. "Self-culture" is for isolated Hatha Yogis, independent of any Society and having to avoid association with human beings; and this is a triply distilled SELFISHNESS. For real moral advancement- -there "where two or three are gathered" in the name of the SPIRIT OF TRUTH--there that Spirit or Theosophy will be in the midst of them. "

http://www.blavatsk y.net/blavatsky/ arts/Organisatio nOfTheTheosophic alSociety. htm

http://www.katinkah esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v7/yxxxx_ 019.htm (BCW, vol. VII; p. 160)



H. P. Blavatsky said:

"With the advent of Theosophy, the Messiah-craze surely has had its day, and sees its doom." (Lucifer, july 1890)

http://www.blavatsk y.net/blavatsky/ arts/ModernApost lesAndPseudoMess iahs.htm



H. P. Blavatsky said:

"true Theosophists will never accept ...a Christ made

Flesh."

( H.P. Blavatsky's COLLECTED WRITINGS, Volume VIII)



H. P. Blavatsky said:

"Realizing, as they do, the boundlessness of the absolute truth, Theosophists repudiate all claim to infallibility. The most cherished preconceptions, the most "pious hope," the strongest "master passion," they sweep aside like dust from their path, when their error is pointed out. Their highest hope is to approximate to the truth. "

( A SOCIETY WITHOUT A DOGMA )



And I agree with these views.

Because, Yes I agree, that most New Age groups these says are organized around keeping (various) dogmas alive instead of at all costs to be fighting against them. The Original Programe of the TS had this aim to fight dogmas both inside and outside of the TS.



Today we find that some persons want to keep dogmas alive within the TS - or only do a half-hearted effort in officially rejecting them, and in rejecting the bad reputation of being a Messiah-sect, which Annie Besant and CWL, together with J. Krishnamurti created in the period 1911-1929. - And in 1929 J. Krishnamurti in his dissloving Speech, dissolved the Order of the Star in the East. Very good indeed it was. But he also dissolved ALL other organisations, and promoted his very own views on a solitary Path of Pathelss spiritual development - in clear opposition to the Original Programe of the TS as it was given by HPB and her Masters; at least that was how his words were perceived by hundreds of listners - and that is how many people understand J. Krishnamurti' s teachings today. - These are my views.



Look at the past - try to realise the many non-secterian groups which clearly have benefitted in India by the true esoteric teachings, - even if they were not 100% perfect; which almost none are. - Many a Pot Amun group, Buddhist group and Vedanta group, and Mahasiddha group have seen the light for ages. Are you saying that they all of them resulted in leading the Seekers astray??? - If so, I will have to disagree so very much. But maybe I misunderstood you.



2.

And J. Krishnamurti adviced the Seekers to throw away their books after 1929.



And H. P. Blavatsky was it seems in clear opposition to J. Krishnamurti - because she found them to be important steppingstones towards wisdom and theosophy:

"To say that theosophy has no need of a Societyâa vehicle and centre thereof,âis like affirming that the Wisdom of the Ages collected in thousands of volumes at the British Museum has no need of either the edifice that contains it, nor the works in which it is found. Why not advise the British Govt. on its lack of discrimination and its worldliness in not destroying Museum and all its vehicles of Wisdom?" ....etc. etc.

http://www.katinkah esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v7/yxxxx_ 019.htm (BCW, vol. VII; p. 161)



- - -

All this said, I agree upon that it is difficult to promote a physical organisation dealing with the theosophical cause, when we know that it will disappear at the beginning of the great Mahapralaya if not earlier than that.



M. Sufilight



----- Original Message ----- 

  From: preethi muthiah 

  To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 

  Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 8:13 AM

  Subject: Re: Theos-World A New Theosophical Society???



It amazes me that people still continue or perhaps insist on thinking that organizations can solve anything in the universe!!! Mostly organizations of individuals take away from the light within oneself; strange but true....and perhaps sad too...Instead of learning how the other person's life is lit up, we tend to enclose and envelop the other's light with our own inner darkness...



What we fear most is the Light, the Truth, Freedom, Beauty, Love, Wisdom...all which make our Life on Earth worthwhile and meaningful.. .



The 'togetherness' of ignorance is comforting to many....



The main point here is are we willing to awaken, to arise, to move out of our comfort zones and burn as little candles lighting up our little corners with the light within us? A new TS, or a new Society cannot be made with old material steeped in its pleasure-filled darkness...and we have tarried enough on those murky shores. It is time to  awaken now.



Fraternally



Preethi



--- On Fri, 6/11/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:



From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>

  Subject: Re: Theos-World A New Theosophical Society???

  To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com

  Date: Friday, 6 November, 2009, 12:55 AM



Dear MKR and friends



My views are:



Not that I do not find the thread efforts interesting, but may I be allowed to seek to explain, what I find to be the core of the problem facing TS and its elections?



MKR wrote:



"When Besant ran for office, everyone knew her intention and she did not



mince any words about it and did not use others to put forward her



candidature. She won the election in the most open and direct manner that



theosophists are expected to act."



Yes, but AFTER she got elected - she changed the structure of the TS and its relation to the Esoteric Section and her bodily self, all in opposition to the theosophical cause! - Is this not the actual problem, which the TS are facing today?



____________ _________



Alice L. Cleather wrote in 1922 - in her "H. P. Blavatsky, A Great Betrayal":



"Lectures, meetings, night classes, outside 



the college rooms and buildings, took place perpetually in 



the neighbouring T. S. premises and private residences, for 



expounding the doctrines of neo-theosophy and especially the 



book called At the Feet of the Master alleged to have been 



written down by Alcyone (J. Krishnamurti) , as the embryonic 



scriptures and revelation of "the Embryo of a New Religion," 



as Mrs. Besant declares the O. S. E. to be. Resident students 



were advised, and a number of them began to keep photos 



of Alcyone, as the " vehicle " of the " Coming Christ " and 



himsell an " Initiate of the Great White Brotherhood " (and 



Mrs. Besant and one or two other living persons) "on the 



threshold of divinity," and to worship them with flowers, 



incense, etc. Old and young believers prostrating and genu- 



flecting, literally, at the feet of the living original when 



within reach. . . The then Principal of the College (who had 



founded the 0. R. S.) proclaimed in his lectures in the 



neighbouring T. S. Hall, and elsewhere, that he was a " High 



Disciple of the Master " ; and that the C. H. C. was " founded 



to prepare for the Advent of the World-Teacher. " . . 



[Mrs. Besant] has publicly stated [that] all of the members 



of the General Council of the T. S. now belong, with one or 



two exceptions perhaps, to the " Esoteric Section," prime 



condition of membership of which is, THE FORMAL WRITTEN 



PLEDGE OF ABSOLUTE OBEDIENCE TO MRS. BESANT; and SO 



while the loud profession is freedom of thought " for all " 



the practice is sedulously "for herself," and her pledged votaries 



only; while the theory is that the O. S. E. "must 



not be identified with the T. S.," the practice is that the 



T. S. must be merged in the O. S. E. "



. . .



"mention is made 



of the " recognition of the God without us, which made us 



members of this Group from which we draw our life to-day " 



. . .



"The members of the Group are reminded that "we pledged 



ourselves in our hearts that we should strive to become 



her true and loyal servants . . .," etc. " 



. . .



"The trustee and manager into whose hands a copy of this astonishing document



came, with the information that ~it had been circulated~ amongst a number of the C.H.C.



Students, informed the Secretaries of the College, and sent the letter with comments on the same for



publication in a daily paper, in order to show to the public how the person-worship- creeds of



Mrs. Besant's 'neo-theosophy' were being sown and grown within the C.H.C., despite



the resolutions of the Trustees"



[the last three praragraphs was taken by Cleather from Sri Bhagavan Das article 1913 - former genral sec. - of TS India]



http://www.archive. org/stream/ hpblavatskygreat 00clearich# page/46/mode/ 2up



....And the text continues... .



Any comments from TS members or just the ususal silence like in TS Adyar?



- - - - - - - 



Let us remember the words by Blavatsky in the below, and consider if we do not agree with her views...



H. P. Blavatsky wrote august 1889:



" There is no longer a "Parent Society"; it is abolished and replaced by an aggregate body of 



Theosophical Societies, all autonomous, as are the States of America, and all 



under one Head-President, who, together with H. P. Blavatsky, will champion the 



CAUSE against the whole world. Such is the real state of things."



(http://www.blavatsk y.net/blavatsky/ arts/PuzzleFromA dyar.htm) 



A PUZZLE FROM ADYAR by H. P. Blavatsky, 1889 - (Try to read this article.)



"WHEN the cat is abroad the mice dance in the house it seems. Since Colonel 



Olcott sailed for Japan, the Theosophist has never ceased to surprise its 



European readers, and especially the Fellows of our Society, with most 



unexpected capers. 



It is as if the Sphinx had emigrated from the Nile and was determined to 



continue offering her puzzles broadcast to 



the Odipuses of the Society."



"That the E.S. had never any pretensions to "boss the T.S." stands to 



reason: with the exception of Col. Olcott, the President, the Esoteric Section has 



nothing whatever to do with the Theosophical Society, its Council or 



officers. It is a Section entirely apart from the exoteric body, and independent of 



it, H.P.B. alone being responsible for its members, as shown in the official 



announcement over the signature of the President-Founder himself.* It follows, 



therefore, that the E. S., as a body, owes no allegiance whatever to the 



Theosophical Society, as a society, least of all to Adyar."



"It is pure nonsense to say that "H.P.B. . . . is loyal to the Theosophical 



Society and to Adyar" (!?) . H.P.B. is loyal to death to the Theosophical 



CAUSE, and those great Teachers whose philosophy can alone bind the whole 



Humanity into one Brotherhood. Together with Col. Olcott, she is the chief Founder 



and Builder of the Society which was and is meant to represent that CAUSE; 



and if she is so loyal to H.S. Olcott, it is not at all because of his being 



its "President," but, firstly, because there is no man living who has worked 



harder for that Society, or been more devoted to it than the Colonel, and, 



secondly, because she regards him as a loyal



friend and co-worker. Therefore the degree of her sympathies with the 



"Theosophical Society and Adyar" depends upon the degree of the loyalty of that 



Society to the CAUSE. Let it break away from the original lines and show 



disloyalty in its policy to the CAUSE and the original programme of the Society, and 



H.P.B. calling the T.S. disloyal, will shake it off like dust from her feet.



And what does "loyalty to Adyar" mean, in the name of all wonders? What is 



Adyar, apart from that CAUSE and the two (not one Founder, if you please) who 



represent it? Why not loyal to the compound or the bathroom of Adyar?"



" There is no longer a 



"Parent Society"; it is abolished and replaced by an aggregate body of 



Theosophical Societies, all autonomous, as are the States of America, and all 



under one Head-President, who, together with H. P. Blavatsky, will champion the 



CAUSE against the whole world. Such is the real state of things."



http://www.katinkah esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v11/y1889_ 049.htm



So what to do with the dust on our feets?



Continue to accept the Messiah-dogmas invented Besant about Krishnamurti; dogmas which appearntly are accepted until today - or instead - as ever - clearly and visible fight AGAINST blind dogmas, which was a part of the original aim with the Society?



Of course that does not imply me and other theosophists saying that one only aught to accept all what Blavatsky wrote, and that later words and writings are to be rejected. But do we in the name of compassion and universal brotherhood (and sisterhood) need such a cult-like Messiah behaviour within the TS? - I suggest, that it is clearly thrown away officially - and the original aims of the TS be followed down to the last dot!



Now to me, this is the key and core of the problems TS are facing, with its stupid kind of organisational structure, and its acceptance of a past leadership, which aught to have been abandoned for years...The core is not how one gets elected, when the organisational structure was different in Besants time when she got elected - than it was and is today! - People wants transperency and honesty, and not to be coerced into a religious body governed secretly from behind closed doors of the E.S. of obedience. - They want to know about wisdom - and not about blind obedience.



Any comments?



Another problem is, that we live in an information society in this globe these days. And because of that the TS organisational structure aught to be aftaped much more to scuh a stage in the evolution of mankind - The paradigm of ecological understanding and reason is not far away - or else it will be forced upon humanity through the Lae of Karma. The climate is changing.



- - -



How can one hear the voice of small mice,



when they do not say anything at all?



M. Sufilight



----- Original Message ----- 



From: MKR 



To: theos-talk 



Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 6:07 PM



Subject: Theos-World A New Theosophical Society???



A New Theosophical Society???



In the past, when philosophical and political differences arose in TS, some



of the leaders went off and formed their own TS to further their own vision



of what theosophy is and what TS should do.



Recently it was a revelation to me that when Annie Besant ran for the office



of the President, the major section from which she did not get majority



votes was the American Section. At the time of her election, there was also



the distinct possibility her not being elected.



It appears that there was a Plan B, with her forming her own TS supported by



those who had confidence in her. She would have done it if the situation



arose. She was a marvellous organizer and also fund raiser for TS and would



not have needed any of the money and assets of TS, if a need arose to start



a new TS. It is to be pointed out that it was during her leadership, Adyar



estate was expanded to the current size of 200 plus acres from the early 10



plus acres bought at Olcottâs time.



When Besant ran for office, everyone knew her intention and she did not



mince any words about it and did not use others to put forward her



candidature. She won the election in the most open and direct manner that



theosophists are expected to act.



What a contrast when we look at what has been going on since the President



election started. What is even more interesting are the events following the



election, such as the allegation against Indian Section, ill fated ultra



secret attempt by a Quartet of GC members to seize the President, and the



display of cleavage in the December 2008 meeting of the GC such as never



been seen in the history of TS. Due to the secrecy with which the GC has



operated and continues to operate, ordinary members are in the dark about



what other schemes are being cooked behind the scenes.



It is said, follow the money and you can understand what is going on. The



underlying attraction seems to be the valuable real estate in Adyar and the



money in the Treasury. If that were not the case, those who have a strong



disagreement with the election verdict of majority of members world-wide,



could have easily launched their own TS with followers and money raised from



the followers.



The key note of TS is Brotherhood. I recall reading an instance in Ojai in



1920s when someone made an uncomplimentary comment to a Krotona resident



that if one wants to see how Brotherhood is really working in TS, all one



needs to do is to visit Krotona.



The events since the start of the President election has, in my humble



opinion, done a lasting harm to TS and theosophy. Anyone looking at the



December 2008 GC meeting can come to their own conclusion about how



Brotherhood is working in practice at the highest levels of TS world-wide.



We all know how Internet saved TS from the greatest peril it faced since



Coloumb crisis. Internet also throws a bright light on all the events in and



surrounding TS. Prospective members and newbees see for themselves the



disconnect between the keynote of TS and the actions of leaders at the



highest levels, thus making TS a laughing stock. Many members also have a



very low level of trust in their leaders as a result of what is going on.



Leaders can effectively lead only if the followers have a high level of



trust in them.



Unless quick, open, transparent, good-faith, radical action is taken at all



levels, I am afraid we are going to see the real effects of Kali Yuga on TS



and thus all of us. I am an optimist and hope wise minds will perceive the



problem and turn things around in a hurry.



MKR



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