Theos-Talk Archives (September 2009 Message tt00072)

Most readers on this list do not know much about " Idarmis, Dolores,
Elvira", except the last whose name came into prominence at the time of last
year's election.

>From the names, I suppose they are from the West and were temporarily
working at Adyar. From what I understand, Idarmis and Elvira are working at
Wheaton.

It would be interesting to know if anything of significance that these
people did or did not do at Adyar that their names came up in the
discussion. Transparency always helps.

MKR


On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 12:04 AM, preethi muthiah
<seeker_preethi@yahoo.com>wrote:

>
>
> Dear Katinka, MKR and Sampsa,
>
> Thank you for your comments.
>
> I would like to clarify something for you Sampsa. I am not working against
> Adyar as the Masters of the Wisdom saw it. I am definitely working against
> the Adyar Mrs Radha Burnier rules and dictates, for I am convinced that the
> Adyar of Mrs Radha Burnier is not a place fit even for human beings, leave
> alone Theosophists.
>
> Since May 2009 I have openly challenged her authority as President of the
> TS and Head of the ES, mainly because she tried to use her authority in the
> ES to reinstate her authority of the TS, by forcing members of the ES to
> sign what might be called a fealty form, which takes away from individual ES
> members their right to think and act intelligently. Also, because, she
> allows her niece, Ms Subha Nilakanta, to abuse fellow-workers at the
> Editorial Office at Adyar and her niece-in-law, Mrs Uma Nilakanta, to
> practise corruption at various levels in the running of Leadbeater Chambers
> at Adyar; and by so doing endorses their tyranny and corruption.
>
> With regard to your comments about my bringing up issues with Ms Mary
> Anderson, those are just examples of how Theosophists behave. We might want
> to remember the words of the Masters of the Wisdom who tell us that every
> word given out by us is accounted for in the akashic records.
>
> Can we also look at why it is you all hold on to the personalities
> mentioned, rather than the points mentioned there? The main point mentioned
> in the article entitled "Wither Theosophy; Whither TS" is that the
> President, Mrs Radha Burnier, and her followers and supporters on campus at
> Adyar do not welcome on campus any more any member who has a view at
> variance with their limited one, and especially those who have even a little
> of anti-Burnierian attitude. If tolerance is a virtue for Theosophists,
> would you not say that the President of the TS and Head of the ES ought to
> be the first one to elucidate that very quality? Why does she take every
> single suggestion a member of the TS makes against her administration as a
> personal insult for which then she must punish and reprimand the poor member
> -- whether that member be Mary, Idarmis, Dolores, Elvira, or Preethi or for
> that matter our ex-Vice President, Dr John Algeo? We have all suffered for
> our
> opposition of her ways. So why is our international President so intolerant
> that at Adyar today in order for one to serve and work there, one has to
> follow the motto: "There is no Religion Higher than Radha Burnier", because
> honesty and truth are no longer appreciated at Adyar?
>
> The Buddha said: When I say, look at the moon, don't look at my finger. I
> transpose that to say, when Preethi says, Ms Anderson, Ms Rodriguez, Ms
> Gago, went through something, look at the thing being pointed to rather than
> at the examples being given to elucidate that point. On the one hand, when I
> speak generally without examples, I am blamed for not giving examples.
> Today, on your request I am giving you examples.
>
> Or is the underlying issue something else basically? Something perhaps so
> deeply ingrained in human consciousness that Theosophists despite all their
> big literature and knowledge are unwilling to overcome it -- Theosophists
> fear change just as humans the world over do. Theosophists fear
> responsibility just as humans the world over do. Theosophists speak big
> words at lectures just as other humans the world over do. Theosophists
> prefer like humans the world over to hold on to outer forms rather than
> practise their inner essence and meaning. And if their preference for wrong
> and ignorance is going to cost the downfall of the TS as founded by the
> Masters of the Wisdom, why should they care? As long as the outer form
> continues to the exist, we can be comfortable and attend conventions,
> lecture tours, workshops, etc.
>
> Fraternally,
>
> Preethi
>
> --- On Sat, 12/9/09, katinka_hesselink <mail@katinkahesselink.net<mail%40katinkahesselink.net>>
> wrote:
>
> From: katinka_hesselink <mail@katinkahesselink.net<mail%40katinkahesselink.net>
> >
> Subject: Theos-World Re: the challenges that face the Theosophical society
> Adyar
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Saturday, 12 September, 2009, 11:05 AM
>
>
>
>
> Hi MKR,
>
> For what it's worth, the former dutch chair woman of the Dutch section did
> apologize for signing that proposal about disenfranchisement. It turns out
> she signed without asking the board whether they agreed. She did so right
> before handing over the post to the next chair.
>
> I personally think it's far less likely that conspiracies are going on,
> than that people have simply gone back to work for the TS.
>
> I think people are confused, which is only natural, and building on that
> with conspiracy theories is not going to help the movement any.
>
> Katinka
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Let me add a few of my brief comments on issues related to TS.
>
> >
>
> > While the election is over more than a year ago, we all saw the actions
> of
>
> > many of the section leaders and we are yet to see any action to bridge
> the
>
> > cleavage demonstrated in the last meeting of the general council. Some
> get
>
> > the feeling that everyone is hiding behind the silence (possibly planning
>
> > next surprise move) and we have not seen any demonstration of any
> leadership
>
> > to get going.
>
> >
>
> > The continued lack of transparency and the loss of trust engendered by
> the
>
> > ultra secret effort to disenfranchise all of us and the lack of
> recognition
>
> > of the error and need to openly eat crow and apologize leaves many to
>
> > believe that unless some very bold and creative dramatic steps are taken,
>
> > the cleavage will continue to linger on and we have to wait for the next
>
> > generation of young creative imaginative men and women takes over the
>
> > organization in all parts of the world.
>
> >
>
> > While street smartness can come with age, when has world seen
>
> > septuagenarians and octogenarians responsible for coming up with new and
>
> > creative ideas to contribute to growth of any enterprise. Let us all hope
>
> > that we soon find young leaders around the world to take us to the
> future.
>
> > Elders and old men and women cannot do it.
>
> >
>
> > MKR
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:07 PM, katinka_hesselink <
>
> > mail@...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Hi all,
>
> > >
>
> > > I've read Preethi's account of relations at Adyar last year with
> interest,
>
> > > however, I'm not surprised Mary Anderson denies the charges against
> Radha.
>
> > > After all it's one thing to complain a bit about relations with one's
>
> > > coworkers as they're going on. It's quite another to want them
> published on
>
> > > the internet for anybody to read.
>
> > >
>
> > > Theosophists I meet sometimes tell me things and then add: don't
> publish
>
> > > that. I guess Mary Anderson should have said the same to Preethi. Or
> better
>
> > > yet: Preethi should have asked Mary in advance whether she wanted those
>
> > > comments published. In the Internet age we're all journalists in a
> sense and
>
> > > we have to take the responsibility that comes with that to only publish
>
> > > about other people what is absolutely essential AND they agree can be
>
> > > published.
>
> > >
>
> > > It's different when it's issues of principle. Like when we were all
>
> > > protesting the potential change in how the president is elected. Or
> when
>
> > > we're talking about who the new president is going to be. But right now
> all
>
> > > that is settled and we need to get back to the work or running lodges
> and
>
> > > magazines, publishing books and organizing lectures.
>
> > >
>
> > > It's a normal fact of life that people who work together sometimes get
>
> > > along great, and at others don't. Posting such temporary complaints
> online a
>
> > > year after they happened is of no use to anybody, aside from the
> interest
>
> > > most of us have in gossip.
>
> > >
>
> > > If the TS is going to move forward into the 21st century in a way that
> is
>
> > > of use to humanity, we're going to have to face some real issues,
> instead of
>
> > > getting side tracked into personal complaints.
>
> > >
>
> > > Real issues we're facing:
>
> > >
>
> > > - how to build community online in a way that is productive and helps
>
> > > people grow spiritually
>
> > > - how to build community offline: help our lodges grow and be places of
>
> > > real study and a meeting place for people of diverse cultural and
> religious
>
> > > backgrounds
>
> > > - how to transform our magazines into well... magazines. Quest is an
> actual
>
> > > magazine in this sense, though it might have a higher percentage of in
> depth
>
> > > theosophical content. The Theosophist and the Dutch magazine Theosofia
> (two
>
> > > of the magazines I know) aren't magazines in any other sense than that
>
> > > they're published in a magazine format. They don't have a column for
> letters
>
> > > sent in, for instance. Theosofia doesn't even have a column by the
> editors.
>
> > >
>
> > > One issue Preethi is complaining about is valid though: how important
>
> > > should it be whether people are first, second or third generation
>
> > > theosophists? (I'm first btw)
>
> > >
>
> > > There's a grey line here. It's natural to trust family more than
> others,
>
> > > but when a family member turns out to not be very good at the job you
> gave
>
> > > them, they should be replaced.
>
> > >
>
> > > At Adyar another issue is also pressing: the issue of caste. Can
> something
>
> > > be done about the prevalence of high caste Indians in positions of
> power? Or
>
> > > on other words: is enough done to reach out to lower caste (varna, jati
>
> > > whatever you want to call it) members of the TS? Does the Indian
> section
>
> > > even have such members in positions of influence?
>
> > >
>
> > > In the West, similarly, are we reaching out to people of color enough?
> to
>
> > > Muslims? And if we should, how should that be done?
>
> > >
>
> > > Those are just a few of the issues I think about when I think about
> where
>
> > > the TS is headed, or should be headed. I do wonder: what do you all
> think
>
> > > the real challenges of the TS are?
>
> > >
>
> > > I will only promise to read responses to this post, posted here:
>
> > > http://theosophical society.wordpres s.com/2009/ 09/11/challenges
> -theosophical- society-adyar/
>
> > >
>
> > > Katinka Hesselink
>
> > >
>
> > > http://www.katinkah esselink. net/
>
> > > http://www.overpein zende.nl/
>
> > > http://www.allconsi dering.com/
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
> Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more.
> Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


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