Theos-Talk Archives (August 2009 Message tt00019)

Yes. Unfortunately Rukmini died in 1986 so we may never know the truth to the 1980 allegations cited herein. I can only repeat what I remember from meeting her in 1981. She was not bitter in any way. I think, as pointed out earlier in the thread, she was most concerned about the direction and evolution of the Society. 

Healthy debate and democratic election are vital for the continuance of any society. I do think the one question I have regarding this is if we are promoting universal brotherhood, it should mean we are permeating divisions of nationality, based soley on the universal principal of equality. 

Therefore rather than devalue one section because more of our members come from that place, we should be working to entice more people to use our society to seek their own paths from many other places. 

 

Jason



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@...> wrote:
>
> ah...unfortunately by the time truth reveals itself it no longer applies
> 
> Cass
> 
> 
> >
> >From: MKR <mkr777@...>
> >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >Sent: Sunday, 2 August, 2009 2:12:17 AM
> >Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Betty Bland's Statement on 1980 Election
> >
> >  
> >Truth ultimately triumphs. When truth comes out, let the chips fall where
> >they may.
> >
> >MKR
> >
> >visit www.theosophy. net
> >
> >On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 1:40 AM, preethi muthiah <seeker_preethi@ yahoo.com>wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> And why should anyone give you the facts, MKR. When the facts are given,
> >> you will turn around and doubt the integrity , emotional stability and
> >> sanity of the truth-bearer. So then you only deserve lies, dishonesty,
> >> comfortable rumours and gossip. You don't deserve the truth.
> >>
> >>
> >> Preethi
> >>
> >> --- On Fri, 31/7/09, MKR <mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> From: MKR <mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com>>
> >> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Betty Bland's Statement on 1980 Election
> >> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>
> >> Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 6:06 PM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The comment about the 1980 election coming from the National President
> >>
> >> (General Secretary) of the American Section is very important for members
> >>
> >> world-wide. It is all the more so because I have never heard of even any
> >>
> >> rumors from anyone in all these years. If there are any facts
> >> substantiating
> >>
> >> the comments, it is but fair that everyone is informed.
> >>
> >> As I have stated many times before, I am just an ordinary member of TS in
> >>
> >> America and everything I bring up is on my own initiative.
> >>
> >> MKR
> >>
> >> Visit www.theosophy. net
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:29 AM, preethi muthiah
> >>
> >> <seeker_preethi@ yahoo.com>wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > MKR,
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > This is just curiosity again, but why do I get the feeling that you are
> >>
> >> > purposefully taking attention away from the scenario at Adyar vis-a-vis
> >> the
> >>
> >> > corruption practised and endorsed by the President and her relatives to
> >>
> >> > things that happened much earlier than these revelations?
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Please do forgive me if I am wrong, but are you working for someone at
> >>
> >> > Adyar who ensures that you talk against those who opposed the President
> >>
> >> > during the recent elections, so that too much attention is NOT focused on
> >>
> >> > the corrupt goings-on at Adyar?
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > I am just a curious member who observes certain things that the
> >> "messenger"
> >>
> >> > does...
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Preethi
> >>
> >> > --- On Fri, 31/7/09, MKR <mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > From: MKR <mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com>>
> >>
> >> > Subject: Theos-World Re: Betty Bland's Statement on 1980 Election
> >>
> >> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>
> >>
> >>
> >> > Date: Friday, 31 July, 2009, 7:46 AM
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > In a statement put out several weeks ago on a quaint website, Betty
> >> Bland,
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > National President of Theosophical Society in America stated:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > +++For example, the international presidential contest in 1980, when
> >> Radha
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Burnier won over Rukmini Devi, was also fraught with differences of
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > opinion.+++
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > No one has heard of any complaints regarding the 1980 election, either
> >> from
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Rukmini or her supporters inside TS or outside TS (there are many outside
> >>
> >> > TS
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > due to her long time involvement in the revival of Indian Dance and her
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > activities for Animal Welfare in India).
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > So this was a great surprise to me and many members around the world
> >>
> >> > because
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > we have never heard of this even in the gossip grape vine. Elected
> >> General
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Secretaries of National Sections hold important and prestigious positions
> >>
> >> > in
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > TS. Normally members highly regard and trust them. So anything they say
> >> or
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > put in writing is expected to be truthful and backed up with verifiable
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > facts.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Having made the statement, is it unreasonable for dues paying members to
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > expect details behind the statement. I wrote to Betty on June 3 inquiring
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > about it. To this day, there is no response.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > When a theosophical leader heading the second largest TS section, makes
> >>
> >> > such
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > statements, keeping silent only affects the opinion members have in their
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > leader and in turn reflects on TS. Since the motto of TS is There is no
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > religion higher than Truth, it also negatively affects the TS.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > I hope we will hear from Betty soon. Continued silence cannot help her or
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > TSA.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > MKR
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > visit www.theosophy. net
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 6:31 PM, jasonsriram <jasonsriram@ yahoo.com>
> >>
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > MK
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > Maybe it is just a case of "see it happened before". However, I agree
> >>
> >> > with
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > your assessment that there was no case of claims of either
> >> electioneering
> >>
> >> > or
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > false or misleading statements from either party as I recall in 1980..
> >> In
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > fact I was in Adyar in 1980 and have no recollection of rancour or
> >>
> >> > ongoing
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > spatting as is occurring now.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > In 1976 she (Rukmini) was nominated to be President of India, a post
> >> she
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > declined. I spoke with her in 1981 about it and she stated she declined
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > because she had "no interest in political life". So I really doubt that
> >>
> >> > it
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > was anything other that an unwanted result from a post she felt she was
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > qualified for.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > If Betty can disclose more on the source of her information I would be
> >>
> >> > very
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > interested to know more on this.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > Jason
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>,
> >> MKR
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > <mkr777@> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > Six weeks ago, Betty Bland, President (National Secretary) of TS in
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > America,
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > in a cyberspace write-up stated:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > .
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > +++
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > Although no one is contesting the outcome of the 2008 presidential
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > election,
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > the problem remains that the machinations of the international
> >>
> >> > elections
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > are
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > unsound. For example, the international presidential contest in 1980,
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > when
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > Radha Burnier won over Rukmini Devi, was also fraught with
> >> differences
> >>
> >> > of
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > opinion.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > +++
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > .
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > The comments coming from the National Head of TS in America, is
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > surprising
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > and need elaboration so that members can clearly understand the
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > statement.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > .
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > Dictionary defines machinations as:
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > .
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > ** a scheming or crafty action or artful design intended to
> >> accomplish
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > some
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > usually evil end
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > .
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > When anyone holding a high position in a spiritual organization such
> >> as
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > TS
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > makes such statements, I think members are owed an explanation
> >> backing
> >>
> >> > up
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > the statement.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > .
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > The second comment about the 1980 election, is even more interesting.
> >> .
> >>
> >> > I
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > have
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > never seen any allegation from Rukmini Devi or her supporters inside
> >> TS
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > or
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > outside TS about anything questionable about the 1980 election.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > RukminiDevi, whose husband George
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > Arundale was President succeeding Annie Besant, is very widely known
> >> in
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > India and around the world due to her long active involvement in TS
> >> and
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > her
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > other outside activities. If there was any problem whatsoever with
> >> the
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > 1980
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > election, we would have heard them loud and clear soon after the
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > election. I
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > have not heard of any allegation or complaint. I do not know what
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > information Betty Bland is privy to that ordinary members around the
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > world
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > are ignorant of. When such public statements are made, it is not
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > unreasonable for members ask for substantiation.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > .
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > Several weeks ago, I wrote an open letter to Betty requesting
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > clarification.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > We have not heard anything so far.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > .
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > The above situation does not help anyone. Already, level of trust
> >> many
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > members have in the TS leaders is very low. This was the result of
> >> the
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > election campaign and post election ultra secret attempt by general
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > council
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > members to disenfranchise members world-wide and seize the power to
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > appoint
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > the president.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > .
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > I hope soon we will get some response substantiating the above
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > statements.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > Due to the nature of the statements, by keeping silent, the questions
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > surrounding the statements, are not going to go away.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > .
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > MKR
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > .
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > Visit www.theosophy. net
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local
> >>
> >> > http://in.local. yahoo.com/
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Looking for local information? Find it on Yahoo! Local
> >> http://in.local. yahoo.com/
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
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