Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
Jul 11, 2009 11:57 PM
by Morten Nymann Olesen
My views are:
No. Perhaps I did not understand this question, where you seem to conclude something based on certain assumptions.
Is nature not communicating with you through your physical senses?
Is it impossible to inspire people so they pick up certain thoughts or ideas?
I was not saying that the physical is not required to teach various individuals in their physical incarnation. Perhaps that is what you thought. I am saying that other methods might be used by honest Guru's instead of their physical appearence so to seek to help the Seekers.
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
So you force nature to work on them? No free will/choice?
--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 9:50 PM
Through Extra Sensory Perception.
Thoughts are after all not dependant on physical activities.
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
How are you ever gonna teach them anything then?
--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 1:04 PM
The same as the fact that talking or writing is performed on a lower level than thinking.
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
So people are healing the lepers in their heads then? Whats wrong with being physically present?
--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 12:04 PM
Chuck said:
"I'm saying we need to get away from the notion of teachers as identifiable
agents altogether."
Yes, when they are used as a publicity-stunt.
Idries Shah has told clearly about it:
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/sufi/sufi-shah.html
The truth Guru's which are not physically known can be and are important. Most New Age Guru's and even present day theosophical lecturers are only average human beings, maybe bookworms or cunning orators and nothing else.
A tree is known on its fruits, and not on how cunning it is in cheating people to believe that throwing money away is a good idea or that emotional excitement is the spiritual highest.
- - - - - - -
Idries Shah said:
"I believe that the guru needs his disciples. If he had a sufficient outlet for his desire to be a big shot or his feeling of holiness or his wish to have others dependent on him, he wouldn't be a guru.
I got all that out of my system very early and, consistent with Sufi [theosophical] tradition, I believe that those who don't want to teach are the ones who can and should. The West still has a vocation hang-up and has not yet discovered this. Here, the only recognized achiever is an obsessive. In the East we believe that a person who can't help doing a thing isn't necessarily the best one to do it. A compulsive cookie baker may bake very bad cookies. "
......
"Their followers need the guru as much as the guru needs his followers. I just don't regard it as a religious operation. I take a guru to be a sort of psychotherapist. At the very best, he keeps people quiet and polarized around him and gives some sort of meaning to their lives."
......
"Why shouldn't there be room for what we might call "neighborhood psychotherapy" - the community looking after its own? However, why it should be called a spiritual activity rather baffles me."
.......
"Some are frankly phonies, and they don't try to hide it from me. They think that I am one, too, so when we meet they begin the most disturbing conversations. They want to know how I get money, how I control people, and so on."
......
"They actually feel there is something wrong with what they are doing, and they feel better if they talk to somebody else who is doing it. I always tell them that I think it would be much better if they gave up the guru role in their own minds and realize that they are providing a perfectly good social service."
- - -
The question is if the above words are what the beginners at TS Adyar or other theosophical groups are greeted with???
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Drpsionic@aol.com
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
Hmmm, let's see. Ghandi never faced a real opponent, Stalin would have
had him for lunch and Mother Theresa was a ghoul who fed off the energies of
the dying. I don't know what they were teaching but it ain't anything I
would want to learn.
I'm saying we need to get away from the notion of teachers as identifiable
agents altogether.
Chuck the Heretic
In a message dated 7/10/2009 10:22:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
silva_cass@yahoo.com writes:
So you are saying that World Teachers are known by their actions rather
than their words? If this is the case one could argue that Gandhi and Mother
Theresa were world teachers.
I suppose one can walk with world teachers or one can walk behind them.
A spiritual evolved soul is probably on the way to being his/her own world
teacher.
Cass
>
>From: "_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) "
<_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) >
>To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com)
>Sent: Friday, 10 July, 2009 2:48:56 PM
>Subject: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
>
>
>
>
>
>Ok. The World Teacher thing is fun but the truth is that Theosophist have
>been flying the wrong carpet on it since the idea floated out of Annie
and
>the Bishop's hats.
>
>First, there really has never been an identifiable person who could be
>considered a "World Teacher" who had any serious impact in his lifetime.
The
>Buddha was just another local nutcase and Jesus got himself killed. So
>this business about finding out who the next "World Teacher" was going to
be
>makes about as much sense as trying to find out who will be the next
Michael
>Jackson (in the hope of aborting him before he can appear) and all the
fuss
>over whether it was Krishnamurti or Aleister Crowley or even L. Ron
>Hubbard is missing the point.
>
>We can ignore crooks like Sai Baba Booey and crazy old Ben Creme for the
>moment.
>
>If there were to be a world teacher, that individual would not have to
>appear in public at all. He could be totally obscure, sitting in his
living
>room, watching reruns of old game shows on cable, an putting the
information
>directly into the minds of the people prepared to receive it without them
>even knowing that he exists or that the information, the ideas as it
were,
>came from any source other than their own minds. The techniques are
>certainly simple enough. Anyone can master them in a few days. Which is
why the
>dugpa stuff is so silly. There is nothing they can do that anyone else
>cannot do and probably are.
>
>It is obvious that the idea of a World Teacher, wandering the earth
>spreading teaching to the hungry masses is a simple failure to understand
how
>information can be spread. It is from a mindset locked into archaic and
>fundamentally clumsy means of communication, voice, the written word,
personal
>appearance, even video. There is no need for any of that and one wonders
>why those called masters of the wisdom, who frankly do not, in
retrospect,
>seem to have been masters of much of anything but falling off their
flying
>carpets, would not have realized that.
>
>The search is a waste of time and energy. If there really is a world
>teacher running around loose somewhere, he has no need to be found, no
desire to
>be public. That would just get in the way and be a distraction.
>
>It is time to face reality and forget all the nonsense that has been
>written in the past by people who either did not know what they were
talking
>about or who had a vested interest in public ignorance.
>
>Chuck the heretic
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