Theos-Talk Archives (July 2009 Message tt00156)

Thanks for detailed comments by Robert Bruce.
.
My comment on the activities of lodges is based on several lodges in the USA
and India and over a long period of time. These lodges have been in large
cities in both countries. Hence I feel that this is reflective of the
overall situation around the world.
.
In any organization, there are going to be problems from time to time. It is
not uncommon when property and money gets mixed up the activities, all sorts
of problems do arise. However, I feel that overall, lodge members are busy
with their local lodge activities without interference from national or
international authorities.
.
Hence I am convinced that anything to motivate the lodges to become vibrant
is the key to long term growth of TS.
.
MKR
.
Visit theosophy.net and enjoy.


On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 7:21 PM, robert_b_macd <
robert.b.macdonald@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> MKR has outlined recent events, I have commented on his outline
> stressing that recent events are not isolated.
>
> MKR:
>
> I have been a member of TS for several years. In every lodge I have been
> a
> member, both in the USA and India, we had total autonomy about the kind
> of
> programs we had. We were not concerned about the National
> Secretary/President or International President or about the rules and
> regulations either about the local or national or international.
>
> RBM:
>
> I have only belonged to one lodge, it started out affiliated with the
> National Section of Canada at the time and through them Adyar. We are
> now autonomous. It would have been nice if TS in America and Adyar had
> minded their own business, but they did not. We practiced autonomy and
> in the end that was probably what had us expelled.
>
> MKR:
>
> The focus was local activity. Everyone was very busy carrying on
> lectures,
> seminars and TOS activities and participation in local gatherings such
> as
> Earth Day. Occasionally for Federation Meetings, we had visits from the
> National Secretary/President or International President. All local
> activities were guided by the three objects of TS with emphasis on the
> first
> object - Brotherhood. I am sure most members would have had similar
> experiences in their lodges.
>
> RBM:
>
> Ours was a similar experience.
>
> MKR:
>
> The recent trigger for Internet discussions on organizational matters
> was
> the attempt to defeat Radha Burnier using the ruse that she is sick both
> mentally and physically, which was shot down by three independent
> physicians
> from two continents. Then followed other allegations about the elections
> and
> rules and regulations. Essentially, these were issues that were a
> concern of
> handful of general council members, primarily the defeated candidate and
> his
> supporters, and they were blowup as if they are great issues that
> members
> are very concerned about.
>
> RBM:
>
> This was the trigger, but if re-organization is going to be addressed,
> what about the experience in Tacoma (Message 31213
> <../../../../message/31213> ), Boston (Message 12940
> <../../../../message/12940> ), Canada (49867 <../../../../message/49867>
> ), etc. If groups want to follow Judge, or Bailey, or have a Christian
> slant, can they not do that? After all, many theosophists find the
> addition of Besant, Leadbeater, or Krishnamurti equally cult-like.
>
> MKR:
>
> It reached a climax when a ultra-secret attempt was made to
> disenfranchise
> all members and general council members seize monopoly power to appoint
> the
> president. Already the general council members have the monopoly power
> to
> nominate the president and seizing the power to appoint would have lead
> to a
> small group taking over the TS. Early discovery and Internet helped to
> inform the shocked and dismayed members, that stopped the attempt and it
> was
> the good luck of TS and the members.
>
> RBM:
>
> I think this is only the most recent climax. Theosophists have been
> losing autonomy for years. See the example of the above lodges.
>
> MKR:
>
> Membership outside India has been in a sad state of affairs with
> stagnation
> and decline. All of us are aware of the total autonomy provided in TS at
> all
> levels. The vibrancy of the TS depends on the grass roots activities of
> committed members. So vibrancy at lodge level is the key. Any amount of
> tinkering with the rules is not going to help TS. There is much work to
> be
> done in the back yards of the general council members.
>
> RBM:
>
> This is a complex problem. Clearly rules are not going to fix anything,
> but they are one of the symptoms of a larger problem. There is a slow
> and insidious dogmatization of the Society. Leaders are protecting
> theosophy by limiting what theosophy is about, limiting what can be
> studied. After being booted out of Adyar, HPB wrote - "There is no
> longer a "Parent Society"; it is abolished and replaced by an aggregate
> body of Theosophical Societies, all autonomous, as are the States of
> America, and all under one Head President, who, together with H. P.
> Blavatsky, will champion the CAUSE against the whole world. Such is the
> real state of things." KH suggested to Sinnett in a letter - "a
> Branch composed of mild Christians sympathizing with the objects of the
> Society might remain neutral in the question of every other religion,
> and utterly indifferent to and unconcerned with the private beliefs of
> the "Founders" the Theosophist making room as willingly for hymns on the
> Lamb, as for slokas on the sacredness of the cow.
>
> If The Masters can make room for Christians in the Society, why not
> those wanting to study Bailey or Krishnamurtic, etc.
>
> MKR:
>
> I hope the fundamental issue of making lodges more vibrant should be
> addressed urgently if we want to further the mission of TS in the world.
>
> RBM:
>
> Lodges will be vibrant if they are studying what people in that
> community are interested in studying. They will be vibrant if they are
> truly autonomous.
>
> Robert Bruce
>
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, MKR
> <mkr777@...> wrote:
> >
> > Let me give my take on some of the issues we have been discussing.
> > .
> > I have been a member of TS for several years. In every lodge I have
> been a
> > member, both in the USA and India, we had total autonomy about the
> kind of
> > programs we had. We were not concerned about the National
> > Secretary/President or International President or about the rules and
> > regulations either about the local or national or international.
> > .
> > The focus was local activity. Everyone was very busy carrying on
> lectures,
> > seminars and TOS activities and participation in local gatherings such
> as
> > Earth Day. Occasionally for Federation Meetings, we had visits from
> the
> > National Secretary/President or International President. All local
> > activities were guided by the three objects of TS with emphasis on the
> first
> > object - Brotherhood. I am sure most members would have had similar
> > experiences in their lodges.
> > .
> > The recent trigger for Internet discussions on organizational matters
> was
> > the attempt to defeat Radha Burnier using the ruse that she is sick
> both
> > mentally and physically, which was shot down by three independent
> physicians
> > from two continents. Then followed other allegations about the
> elections and
> > rules and regulations. Essentially, these were issues that were a
> concern of
> > handful of general council members, primarily the defeated candidate
> and his
> > supporters, and they were blowup as if they are great issues that
> members
> > are very concerned about.
> > .
> > It reached a climax when a ultra-secret attempt was made to
> disenfranchise
> > all members and general council members seize monopoly power to
> appoint the
> > president. Already the general council members have the monopoly power
> to
> > nominate the president and seizing the power to appoint would have
> lead to a
> > small group taking over the TS. Early discovery and Internet helped
> to
> > inform the shocked and dismayed members, that stopped the attempt and
> it was
> > the good luck of TS and the members.
> > .
> > Membership outside India has been in a sad state of affairs with
> stagnation
> > and decline. All of us are aware of the total autonomy provided in TS
> at all
> > levels. The vibrancy of the TS depends on the grass roots activities
> of
> > committed members. So vibrancy at lodge level is the key. Any amount
> of
> > tinkering with the rules is not going to help TS. There is much work
> to be
> > done in the back yards of the general council members.
> > .
> > I hope the fundamental issue of making lodges more vibrant should be
> > addressed urgently if we want to further the mission of TS in the
> world.
> > .
> > My 0.02
> > .
> > Visit theosophy.net and enjoy
> >
> >
> >
> >
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