Theos-Talk Archives (June 2009 Message tt00615)

Hello Anand and all,

I think what is being expressed in many e-mails is a crisis of faith in the current theosophical leadership.  Many are asking why the TS has sunken to its current state of irrelevancy?  In the recent election we had one faction trying to do the impossible, replace an old and aging leader with some new pretender.  The problem for most of the membership as I read it, is that no one has any more faith in the pretender, than they do in the currenct President of the Society.  Not only that, but whole polictical hierarchy is being questioned.  Members are wondering how we have managed to place in positions of responsibility such an uninspiring bunch.  This seems to be global.

This speaks to a constitutional crisis.  If the TS has a political constitution, it will attract politicians, if it has the right type of constitution, perhaps it might attract leadership.

Leaders engage with those that they are leading.  The current crop of politicians' answer to questions they dislike is that they are too busy doing theosophical work to want to get involved in debates of this or that nature.  Are not all members involved in one way or another of doing unpaid theosophical work?  Are not members also involved in providing for families, etc. Are they not equally busy or even more so?  Yet they make the time to familiarize themselves with the issues of the day and try to engage in debate. Yet the leadership make no effort to engage the legitimate concerns of the membership.  This has been the case since the death of Olcott.

The original founders tried to educate and inspire the membership to go out and find creative ways to work theosophically.  The current crop of politicians have their own pet projects that you can support or else you can keep quiet and do nothing.  This seems to be the message.   It seems the recent election and the untheosophical behavior of these "leaders" is a symptom of a greater problem.  Perhaps a leader is needed to organize the disatisfied membership and give them a voice.  The alternative would seem to be the further decay and eventual death of the Society altogether. 

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anand" <AnandGholap@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Roberta,
> I also think that it does not matter who wrote under the name of Mary Underwood. If members find the content of her messages useful, they may read them. What does it matter if the writer is from Chicago or San Francisco? 
> It is MKR who is interested in finding her identity.
> As I mentioned in my last post, I feel that we should consider dissolving the ES and publish all ES documents for the benefit of all. 
> Even if we make a rule that ES head and TS President be two different individuals, I think there will remain many chances of manipulation of TS by coming together of these two heads, who may perhaps be relatives. We can see family control at many places. So, I think, it is much better to dissolve ES completely, so that it won't remain an instrument to control TS. 
> Best
> Anand Gholap
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "robertapimenta26" <robertapimenta26@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Mr. Anand,
> > 
> > I am travelling, therefore I connect,  if you don't mind, with your most recent posting. Would like to share with you that we should not put too much detective work in going after this Mary Underwood (Undercover) whoever she/he is, since the 'person'   is not relevant. Pen-name,  or even a totally fake person;   it is not what it is about! It is all about looking through the outer appearances,  and possible motives. I read messages about virtual pies in someone's face, come on... That, in my opinion is not the way to approach this. Have no opinion about, and I am not interested in the person Underwood:  I want to find out about motives.
> > 
> > Mr. Ramadoss,  when he is informing newcomers, and if he is really sincere, I do pray to God he is,  should be really functioning as a true guide. His essay on the developments in the Adyar group, as published today,  is  far from complete. Went through great pains last week trying to show that there might be another side to all that came our way over the past 18 months, but Mr. Ramadoss is doing his act again. If he doesn't want to go by what I tried to put forward, no problem, but he could have at least mentioned Mr. Rozman's site. There newcomers find impartial info. 
> > 
> > On the ES: 
> > 
> > I am so surprised that readers do not connect with what was mentioned previously. There isn't anything secret about the ES.  
> > 
> > If it is about the original instructions, and if one knows WHY HPB felt it was needed to form such a group, there can only be consensus. 
> > The ES, ought to be a group of sincere and earnest students, who study the teachings,  so these students can benefit mankind. Period! That is why the ES was founded. In order to really understand this we have to stick to the basics, and not go into tainted details. 
> > 
> > In my first postings I made mention of the fact that other theosophical groups, for example the Pasadena group,  dissolved the ES a long time ago. Please, all of you, take note that the Pasadena group published all the 'so called' secret esoteric instructions many years ago, just go to their web site.  In my opinion, and many Adyar theosophist will 100% agree with me, the way G. de Purucker
> > was able to explain all that HPB tried to convey, is very much worth reading.  
> > 
> > This is, in my view,  what should happen: if the TS Adyar decides that the ES should continue to exist, the head of the ES should never be the International President of the TS. No longer a conflict of interest. 
> > 
> > If the ES were to be dissolved, membership of the TS should be taken more seriously. 
> > 
> > Never again should the ES be used to determine election results, policies or strategies,  nor should it be used as  an instrument to force members into certain directions. The ES should be what it what was supposed to be. Adjustments in basic rules and principles,  of course are needed, this is the year 2009. 
> > 
> > Roberta
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> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anand" <AnandGholap@> wrote:
> > >
> > > There is one option being discussed. Some people are thinking that if two offices, the Outer Head of ES and the President of TS, are held by two different individuals, misuse of power will not happen. However, I doubt whether this option can succeed in preventing wrong use of power. In any organization two individuals can form a kind of understanding, a sort of power sharing agreement. I have seen formation of such lobbies by some individuals for their own mutual benefit, at the cost of organization. So, I don't think mere on paper separation of power can guarantee that ES power will not be used to control TS.
> > > There is other better option, which needs debate. We can make all documents of the Esoteric School available to all members of TS. Then whatever spiritual practices were being taught in the ES can be practiced by anybody in TS who wants to live that kind of life. After doing this, there will not be any need of having a separate Esoteric School. As there won't be an ES, question of using ES to control TS will not arise.
> > > There will be many advantages of this change. Abolition of ES will create much healthy relations and brotherhood in TS. ES power will not be used to control TS. And everybody will be free to live life as given in ES documents, if he/she wants.
> > > Best
> > > Anand Gholap
> > >
> >
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