Theos-Talk Archives (June 2009 Message tt00599)

Dear friends,

Let us examine the succession and possible options here. There is going on a discussion on the Theosophical Community on the "Esoteric School Lobby" and the problem of the TS President occupying also the position of the OH of the ES. Anton Rozman posts there link to the Keith Fisher's message on this e-mail list which brings up his opinion that "Adyar needs to be purged of all those who are prejudice or hold a grudge against the duly elected President before regeneration can start. However, spiritual forces seem to be taking control of the situation now," and which he finds related to the issues in discussion and troublesome. Immediately after that two "persons" join the Theosophical Community and start posting a lot of messages including a copy of a document allegedly sent by the OH of the ES to the ES members and on the other hand revealing nepotism and Adyar Estate. After some exchange of opinions that this is just the type of fake information which is seldom used to discredit the President those two "persons" leave the Theosophical Community and all their postings are automatically deleted and a speculation for the possible background is presented by Pablo Sender saying: "Does anybody believe that this "Mary Underwood" is a real person? It could be, but I find it hard to believe. It looks like a fake name for somebody who was already in this discussion and wanted to say something anonymously. Why do I say this? Well, she joined the community yesterday and ten minutes later she was actively discussing this subject, hardly having had time to read the messages. Then, she sends this fake document, and after that she leaves the community. That's kind of suspicious, isn't it? But even if she was a real person, it seems she joined the community with a clear purpose in mind. This is the way certain people work. I've seen this happening in my country also. They usually work covertly, with half truths (which everybody knows are more effective than plain lies), etc. The quality of their actions is enough for me to value their contributions."

First option: "Person" who was hiding under the fake name "Mary Underwood" and published the fake document is someone who was already participating in the discussion. 

Most plausible choice is certainly Anton Rozman as he posted the message which was followed by a message by this "Mary Underwood" in which "she" republished the text from Keith Fisher's message and defined it as "ethnic cleansing". 

Reacting to this Anton Rozman posts the following comment on Pablo Sender's personal page on the TC: 

"Dear Pablo, In one of your latest posts in the discussion "The Esoteric School Lobby" you wrote the following: "Does anybody believe that this "Mary Underwood" is a real person? It could be, but I find it hard to believe. It looks like a fake name for somebody who was already in this discussion and wanted to say something anonymously." I assume that it is me who you had in mind as it was my link to Keith Fisher's post on theos_talk which provoked all those posts by mentioned and one another person. Therefore I would like to inform you that I NEVER posted and will NEVER post any message on the internet anonymously as on my web site I do not publish documents by anonymous persons. I hope that for the sake of fairness you will correct your insinuation. Thanks and warmest regards, Anton"

Pablo Sender replies on TC Anton Rozman's personal page:

"Hi Anton, Believe me, I had nobody in particular in mind, because even if it is true that Mary's was a fake identity, I have no means to know who is the true person behind. So I don't speculate about that. By the way, I didn't read your posts from the theos-talk. I've been member of that list in the past and I have seen people posting so many lies about things I know by first hand, that I really don't care about what they say." 

http://theosophical.ning.com/profile/AntonRozman

And deletes Anton Rozman's comment on his personal page.

Anton Rozman posts another comment on Pablo Sender's personal page:

"Dear Pablo, Saying that "fake name for somebody who was already in this discussion" means that it is one of six of us who are participating who did this and that you actually speculated on this possibility even if you didn't have named the person. This leaves room to readers' imagination to choose the guilty one. If you don't have means to discover the person behind this I find it really unfair towards other members in discussion to make such general accusation. Want it or not the theos_talk list is important public media which is forming public opinion in regard to the situation in the TS. Yes, there are many facts, half-truths and even lies brought forward there but it is, in my opinion, one of the crucial battlefields where the battle for truth of facts has to be fought for. It is not an easy task but you know "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" - but this is just my opinion and choice. Best regards, Anton"

http://theosophical.ning.com/profile/PabloSender

We shall see further developments in this direction.

Second option: "Mary Underwood" is real person and is playing dirty things in cooperation with Anton Rozman to discredit the TS President.

Can anyone prove this option as false - I can not, but am interested?

Third option: "Mary Underwood" is real person and is playing dirty tricks to discredit the TS President.

Fourth option: "Mary Underwood" and the other person are real persons and are working anonymously to reveal the dirty things within the TS or as Anand Gholap put it on the TC: "It is very likely that some good members of TS want to tell something important to members of TS, for the benefit of TS members, but they fear administration."

Fifth option: "Mary Underwood" is real person and is playing dirty tricks to discredit Anton Rozman and all those who oppose the TS President - spiritual forces at work.

Is there any other option?

Warmest regards,
Anton


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:
>
> As an update. Mary and her controversial post are gone when I checked the
> ning site few minutes ago.
> .
> We do not know if it was voluntary or involuntary. Some members also
> commented that she joined the ning few days ago and posted a document which
> was seen as a doctored one and she was gone.
> .
> Many are also wondering if the name is a masquarade to hide his/her real
> identity to avoid taking personal responsibility for the msg posted.
> 
> In Internet environment, events move real fast!!!!
> 
> 
> MKR
> 
> visit theosophy.net and enjoy the activities.
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 8:20 AM, Anand <AnandGholap@...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "robertapimenta26" <robertapimenta26@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dirty Trick? Dirty is too good a word for this trick!! Wished I had more
> > time to write now, but I could see that the thread has been taken from that
> > (TSA) site already. Just as with the 'leaking' of the draft proposal last
> > year, this is a mean and deliberate attempt to discredit certain people. It
> > won't work this time!
> > > Must go.
> > > Roberta
> >
> > What dirty trick?
> > What Mary has posted only confirms Roberta's point.
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>