Re: Theos-World Re: Strange pattern of secrecy/non transparency
Jun 20, 2009 11:41 PM
by Morten Nymann Olesen
Dear friends and Antonio
My views are:
Here is my answer to your questions. Others would give you another answer.
>>> 1. <<<
Antonio wrote:
"Given that i do not know much about TS and its aims, goals and objectives is there a set list you could email me please?"
M. Sufilight answers:
The original ones, which was used when H. P. Blavatsky died was the following...
*** A ***
The Theosophist - January 1891:
"ARTICLE I
Constitution
1. The title of this Society, which was formed at New York, United States of America, on the 17th of November 1875, is the "Theosophical Society."
2. The Theosophical Society is an International Body.
3. The objects of the Theosophical Society are: First. - To form the nucleus of a Universal Brotherhood of Humanity, without distinction of race, creed, sex, caste or colour. Second. - To promote the study of Aryan and other Eastern literatures, religions, philosophies and sciences, and to demonstrate their importance to Humanity. Third. - To investigate unexplained laws of Nature and the psychic powers latent in man.
4. The Theosophical Society is absolutely unsectarian, and no assent to any formula of belief, faith or creed shall be required as a qualification of membership; but every applicant and member must lie in sympathy with the effort to create the nucleus of an Universal Brotherhood of Humanity.
5. The Society does not interfere with caste rules, nor other social observances, nor with politics, and any such interference in its name is a breach of the constitution. The Society is not responsible for the personal opinions of its Fellows. "
http://home1.stofanet.dk/theos-octagon/ts_constitution_rules.HTM
Let us remember, that EASTERN literature was important when H. P. Blavatsky lived.
The Alice A. Bailey groups and others even within the TS has sought to change this into a western emphasis. And we wonder why.
It is according to my view important to ask whether there has been false Christians who havd sought to infiltrate the theosohical teachings with Western and Christian-like teachings?
*** B ***
And one aught to add the following from H. P. Blavatsky's book the Key to Theosophy...
THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY, 2. ed., 1890, p.2-6, 17:
"Dedicated by "H. P. B." To all her Pupils that They may Learn and Teach in their turn."
...
"ENQUIRER. What was the object of this system?
THEOSOPHIST. First of all to inculcate certain great moral truths upon its disciples, and all those who were "lovers of the truth." Hence the motto adopted by the Theosophical Society: "There is no religion higher than truth." â The chief aim of the Founder of the Eclectic Theosophical School was one of the three objects of its modern successor, the Theosophical Society, namely, to reconcile all religions, sects and nations under a common system of ethics, based on eternal verities."
...
"o prove this was the aim of Ammonius, who endeavoured to induce Gentiles and Christians, Jews and Idolaters, to lay aside their contentions and strifes, remembering only that they were all in possession of the same truth under various vestments, and were all the children of a common mother. * This is the aim of Theosophy likewise. "
...
"The Theosophical Society was organized for the purpose of promulgating the Theosophical doctrines, and for the promotion of the Theosophic life."
- - -
Now this was the foundation, which H. P. Blavatsky build her TS objects upon together with H. S. Olcott and W. Q. Judge. All later deviations from these object aught to be compared and given the value they truely deserve.
The Ibjects was build on the objects which Ammonious Saccas and Pot-Amun gave. And these objects again was and had been the basis of the Wisdom teachings through out the ages. Yet, in 1875 they say the light for the first time in centuries to a world wide audience, and not only a western one, middle eastern one or an asian one etc. etc.
Now I claim, that Alice A. Bailey changed this in a her Esoteric Lucis Trust.
Try look at Alice B. Bailey, Discipleship in the New Age (Lucis Press, 1955), Vol.II, p.220.)
And J. Krishnamurti definitely abandoned it in 1929, if he not already had abandoned it under the guidance of Annoe Besant and CWL since the began to promote him as World Teacher - with all the emotional consequences such a promotion has - two of them being: Most of the people who demand a leader seem to have some baby's idea of what a leader should do. The idea that a leader will walk in and we will all recognize him and follow him and everybody will be happy strikes me as a strangely immature atavism.
I think this sums it up pretty easily.
Any readers may correct me if I am wrong. So far I have been a bit disappointed with the TS Adyar and TS members, because they will not answer me on why they keep defending their CWL and Annie Besant and J. Krishnamurti's doctrines despite the above view.
- - - - - - -
>>> 2. <<<
Antonio wrote:
"I mean do the goals change depending on the person at the time or do they always remain the same from the outset?"
M. Sufilight answers:
A very good question, I think. The goals are bound to change on the surface. The essence is always the same in this Maha-Manvantara.
My views are, that, we aught to remember, that although the Theosophical Society was founded for the promulgation of theosophy, and thereby the Wisdom Teachings of all Ages, - the METHODS used for this promotion of goals can easily change in accordance with time, place, people and circumstances. Master K. H. said something about this in letter No. 4 to A. P. Sinnett. K. H. said in 1880: "You see then, that we have weightier matters than small societies to think about; yet, the T.S. must not be neglected."
The Sufis as well as the theosophist operates through DESIGN and MEASUREMENT.
This e-mail is for instance what we call a DESIGN. The Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky was a DESIGN. When Master Morya materialised in front of Olcott in 1876, this whole event was a DESIGN. A persons incarnation taken as a whole can be said to be a DESIGN. Depending on how people react to each DESIGN, the Sufi or Initiate MEASURES the Seeker or Individual. And later a new DESIGN may be forwarded, when time is right. And it is of course not always the same who is forwarding a given design. - And that is perhaps why those beginners, who learn the most goes through learning about at least more than one or two ideologies in their lifes.
DESIGNS operates on several levels on the spiritual Path.
Very important: The use of ideas is to shape a man or woman, not to support a system - which is viewed in a limited manner. This is one way in which the Wisdom Tradition is 'living', and not just the perpetuations of ideas and movements. This seems important to understand and know about.
- - - - - - -
>>> 3. <<<
Antonio wrote:
"Also do all TS members totally agree with all the objectives/aims or has there come a time where these goals were changed to suit the TS at any given time throughout its history?
Not sure if you can answer these questions but i think it would go a long way to figuring out if the current TS is doing what they are supposed to be doing."
M. Sufilight answers:
Look in the above on my views about AAB, CWL, Besant, and Krishnamurti.
So yes, they have been changed to a certain degree by some members, who most often left the TS, when it did not suit them. The present TS may be do follow (and may be not) the original programme given by HPB and H.S. Olcott. You will have to ask them. My view is that they a use a strange manner of keeping the objects, simply because they allow the World Teacher scheme (i.e. CWL's and Besants very emotionalized promotion of Krishnamurti) to be called a promulgation of theosophical teachings. And claiming that this World Teacher endorsed the creation of the Phallic oriented LCC (Liberal Catholic Church) cannot be theosophical teaching either. Now LCC's rites are even today being performed on the TS Adyar compound.
Yes, perhaps you are right, that it would be to "go a long way to figuring out if the current TS is doing what they are supposed to be doing."
We aught also to have in mind that TS at H. P. Blavatsky's time was not the same as TS at Ammonious Saccas or Pot-Amun's time or Buddha's time. H. P. Blavatsky and friends used the telegraph. The present TS seems a bit frozen and grumpy - and seem almost to think of the Internet as a virus at best.
And perhaps they are right, and perhaps not. One person once said to me buying a computer is to mock the poor who is starving in Africa. But Inside I am in a need for prioritizing.
- - - - - - -
>>> 4. <<<
Antonio wrote:
"As i understand it and quote me if i am wrong but are the objectives to bring humanity to one state of consciousness? A botherly and sisterly connection amongst all humans? A persuit for truth? a progression to enlightenment or spiritual evolution? Finding the divine spark both within ourselves and collectivly?"
M. Sufilight answers:
I would say, that what most people consider the term "one state of consciousness" to be is not what it in reality are meant to be when viewed by the Initate or the Masters.
When you are a capeable Master you can materialise into any body of your chosing. You can in fact also copy other human beings three lower bodies down to the dot. The same can be said about peoples ability to sit on a chariot like Krishna with your horse and Arjuna at your side. (It is in fact after all not that difficult to learn how to run a chariot. -Smile). Of course Karma, altruism and compassion should not be neglected, because they are primary in importance. In the same manner, we can say, that when the Maha-Pralaya arrives and further when one "arrives" at ParaBrahm, one is beyond thoughts and time. To write about something which "is" beyond thoughts and time is not quite possible. So I lack words. Compassion is silent and in its prescene we remain silent and will have to dwell. And I hope you will understand what I am saying.
But that abode mentioned by Krishna in Bhagavad Gita, chapter 8, v16-22 - that is the abode i am walking towards. And I claim that all the members at this forum will go there, or have gone already.
- - -
What are your own views?
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Antonio
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Strange pattern of secrecy/non transparency
Hi Morten,
Given that i do not know much about TS and its aims, goals and objectives is there a set list you could email me please?
I mean do the goals change depending on the person at the time or do they always remain the same from the outset?
Also do all TS members totally agree with all the objectives/aims or has there come a time where these goals were changed to suit the TS at any given time throughout its history?
Not sure if you can answer these questions but i think it would go a long way to figuring out if the current TS is doing what they are supposed to be doing.
As i understand it and quote me if i am wrong but are the objectives to bring humanity to one state of consciousness? A botherly and sisterly connection amongst all humans? A persuit for truth? a progression to enlightenment or spiritual evolution? Finding the divine spark both within ourselves and collectivly?
Peace and blessings
Antonio.
--- On Sat, 20/6/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Strange pattern of secrecy/non transparency
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 20 June, 2009, 10:57 AM
Yes, and that is a strange fact.
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Strange pattern of secrecy/non transparency
It is not strange, it just doesn't fit ( is not in balance ) with reality as it is at present, not only with me but the whole world...
--- On Sat, 6/20/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Strange pattern of secrecy/non transparency
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 11:23 AM
Yes, it depends...So you find yourself to be one great "mess"?
Parabrahm allowed the physical to come into existence. Transcended wisdom is certainly strange, do you not think so?
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Strange pattern of secrecy/non transparency
yes, depends how you see it...physically I can only see a mess here on Earth...
--- On Sat, 6/20/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Strange pattern of secrecy/non transparency
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 8:33 AM
To Judge is to organize or "organize" on a higher level.
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Strange pattern of secrecy/non transparency
Karma is not organizing dear brother, it is the ideas, thoughts and desires which organize. Karma is the Judge...
--- On Fri, 6/19/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Strange pattern of secrecy/non transparency
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 8:59 PM
Dear Bill
My views are:
I perceive, that we define the term "REAL spiritual organization" differently.
The Law of Karma is organizing the world even if you would like it not to do so!
Those groups, which seek to perform their work in accordance with this law are bound to work together. They will also work in groups within groups, within perhaps many groups. When they work together - using multi-communication seeking Liberation you instead, call them followers of the devil as far as I understand your words.
If so, I disagree.
Those who seek liberation are doing their best. And that is allright according to ParaBrahm and the visdom teachings. It is those who turn their backs on working together with people, who are the evil ones.
Yet, I agree on that only being 99.9% good is indeed very bad and quite unfortunate.
:-)
- - -
No matter how a person is performing he or she lives at least partly with a condtioned mind in this physical world and also the astral as well as the mental worlds. When one becomes a Master one controls ones conditioning. That is my view.
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Meredith
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Strange pattern of secrecy/non transparency
<So you want to dis-organize everything and throw the White Lodge into the trashcan?>
Many attempts have been made to form a nucleus of universal brotherhood. Perhaps a lodge is one such attempt. An e-mail group might be another. A network yet another. A theosophical society still another. A church? (perhaps a Unitarian Universalist Church?) --a liberal catholic church? a political party? maybe libertarian? All of these appear to be attempts to organize people into loyalists for a particular piece of truth--the piece the original founder picked up.
What is most often lost in these organizations is the individual spirit of adventure and inquisitive nature that caused the the original founder to go looking for truth in the first place. Organizational adherents are made into comfortable followers and finally into believers in a piece of folk-lore.
I believe an organization can exist to foster an environment for individually directed truth seeking --one that makes "original founders" of every member. Such an organization will have no creed or dogma . It will have no leaders and hence no followers. It will be a group of brothers and sisters who inquire insatiably after truth and challenge each other relentlessly not to rest comfortably in yesterday's version of truth.
<I hold it to be true, that there are ordinary organizations and there are those who call themselves spiritual organizations and there are REAL spiritual organizations .>
You are personally free to cling to that truth your whole life.
I believe that truth is a matter of personal discernment and that to organize it is to capture, limit and disguise a piece of it--and eventually to perpetuate that piece as a myth totally absent of the vitality of the living truth.
----------
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