Re: Theos-World NARADA - MORTEN
Jun 13, 2009 12:35 PM
by Martin
Your views are correct, however in the Big Picture, his behaviour was necessairy to steam the TS Adyar through the 20th century. All it needs now is overtaking by real enlightened people and then the boat can set a new course...
--- On Sat, 6/13/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World NARADA - MORTEN
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 13, 2009, 4:32 PM
Dear Martin
My views are:
Let us agree upon, that we are exchaning views.
You agree. And sure I can judge CWL according to my own views. And he is all the time judged through the Law of Karma, and that is a fact to those of us aware of this law. To others is a better hypothesis than the Christian doctrine and other fanatical ones.
Words in writing will never tell the whole truth. Only ParaBrahm beyond time and thought knows or "knows".
A tree is known on its fruits. And I am one of those who found a bunch of rotten apples in his overall teachings and behaviour, which as they stand today is an obstacle to the theosophical teachings. And that I can say, no matter what motives he had. What he did with his stubborn Christian views was not necessary so others might learn, although others consider it to be so. I find it obvious that is was not so.
One reason being that Christianity will decay no matter what and aught not to be promoted like CWL did. CWL near never talked about the real ugly and bad side of the Christian religion. And that is a problem when one evaluates his overall impact.
HPB and K.H. were of course right when they judged the Catholic Church and the Jesuits. ("THEOSOPHY OR JESUITISM?" by HPB - http://www.blavatsk y.net/blavatsky/ arts/TheosophyOr Jesuitism. htm) and
Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter:
For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican!
(Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish Magicians.)
They were right simply because by definition, we do not promote a theosophical teaching, which is phallic and which considers the Christian dogmas and the Bible valuable, because it contains more than 64.000 faults and mistranslations, making nearly each verse incorrect. Among the worlds four major religions today the Christian religion is the one, which is most far away from the teachings given by the Masters beyond the Snowy Mountains. CWL can be said to have succeded in making the theosophical teachings look much more like Christian teachings, with mithra, saviour, emotionalism and all. Such fruits I can only consider to be bad.
My view is also, that Annie Besants idea about that the TS has "no moral code", was something created from Olcott and his camp, and that was why the Masters and HPB had to let the TS go and create the Esoteric Section in 1888. And Annie Besant changed the structure in a even worse direction after H. S. Olcott died, where she effectively made the ES strictly control TS, and thereby created the Sect, which HPB and also the Masters so carefully and friendly had sought to avoid.
And my view is, that this is why TS still has a lot of problems today.
- - - - - - -
H. P. Blavatsky said:
"1st. That the E.S. had never any pretensions to "boss the T.S." stands to reason: with the exception of Col. Olcott, the President, the Esoteric Section has nothing whatever to do with the Theosophical Society, its Council or officers. It is a Section entirely apart from the exoteric body, and independent of it, H.P.B. alone being responsible for its members, as shown in the official announcement over the signature of the President-Founder himself.* It follows, therefore, that the E. S., as a body, owes no allegiance whatever to the Theosophical Society, as a society, least of all to Adyar.
2nd. It is pure nonsense to say that "H.P.B. . . . is loyal to the Theosophical Society and to Adyar" (!?) . H.P.B. is loyal to death to the Theosophical CAUSE, and those great Teachers whose philosophy can alone bind the whole Humanity into one Brotherhood. Together with Col. Olcott, she is the chief Founder and Builder of the Society which was and is meant to represent that CAUSE; and if she is so loyal to H.S. Olcott, it is not at all because of his being its "President," but, firstly, because there is no man living who has worked harder for that Society, or been more devoted to it than the Colonel, and, secondly, because she regards him as a loyal friend and co-worker. Therefore the degree of her sympathies with the "Theosophical Society and Adyar" depends upon the degree of the loyalty of that Society to the CAUSE. Let it break away from the original lines and show disloyalty in its policy to the CAUSE and the original programme of the Society, and
H.P.B. calling the T.S. disloyal, will shake it off like dust from her feet.
And what does "loyalty to Adyar" mean, in the name of all wonders? What is Adyar, apart from that CAUSE and the two (not one Founder, if you please) who represent it? Why not loyal to the compound or the bathroom of Adyar?" (BCW, Vol. 11, p. 379-381; 1889)
- - -
And I agree with H. P. Blavatsky.
Saying that the ES is not "bossing" the TS today year 2009 aught to be deeply questioned. Right? - And we know that silence in TS speaks!
And I am not loyal to CWL's phallic and Christian Saviour-cause, which I do not find to be anything but a sexual nightmare and an obstacle to what HPB and the Masters sought to achieve. CWL is to me an excellent example on what can go wrong, when it goes wrong on the Path. The TS will be much more healthy and compassionate when it will clearly let CWL go and like HPB shake him "off like dust from her feet", so that any talk about Phaeophile Club at the Liberal Catholic Shrine on the Adyar compond will stop.
Please have a Heart.
This letter form KH to Olcott about creating a Buddhist Shrine at Adyar, where is it today?
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World NARADA - MORTEN
Good friend,
I am not saying anything concerning CWL, just that you can't judge him. You can judge what he did according your OWN views, but NEVER according the Laws of Karma.
If it wasn't for CWL, the Theosophical Society would maybe even been worse off, when some1 would teach the things he taught in TODAYS modern times...look what happens to the Catholic Church: it is all about pedophilia.. .
So don't get me wrong, I am not attacking you, merely supporting you with a little critical note :)
Peace bro!
--- On Sat, 6/13/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World NARADA - MORTEN
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Saturday, June 13, 2009, 2:45 PM
Dear Martin
My views are:
So you are saying, that what he did was allright and coincided with the theosophical cause?
Will building a phallic Liberal Catholic Church end the strifes between the worlds religions and create a non-phallic Universal Brotherhood of humanity?
And is for instance the main idea behind the original TS or even the Parliament of World Religions a platform more suitable in this respect?
1.
H. P. Blavatsky said:
"To prove this was the aim of Ammonius, who endeavoured to induce Gentiles and Christians, Jews and Idolaters, to lay aside their contentions and strifes, remembering only that they were all in possession of the same truth under various vestments, and were all the children of a common mother. * This is the aim of Theosophy likewise. "
(The Key to Theosophy, p. 4) - http://www.phx- ult-lodge. org/aKEY. htm
- - -
But there is more to it than the above.
2.
"But if we are talking about the teacher who has disciples, it's because I feel no need for an admiring audience to tell me how wonderful I am or to do what I say. I believe that the guru needs his disciples. If he had a sufficient outlet for his desire to be a big shot or his feeling of holiness or his wish to have others dependent on him, he wouldn't be a guru.
I got all that out of my system very early and, consistent with Sufi tradition, I believe that those who don't want to teach are the ones who can and should. The West still has a vocation hang-up and has not yet discovered this. Here, the only recognized achiever is an obsessive. In the East we believe that a person who can't help doing a thing isn't necessarily the best one to do it. A compulsive cookie baker may bake very bad cookies. "
(Idries Shah) - http://www.katinkah esselink. net/sufi/ sufi-shah. html
- - -
3.
And am I saying that a person who feels that he must engage in a certain profession is doing it because of some emotional need.
I think this is very often the case, and it doesn't necessarily produce the best professional. Show an ordinary person an obsessive and he will believe you have shown him a dedicated and wonderful person - provided he share his beliefs. If he doesn't, of course, he regards the one obsessed as evil. Theosophical teaching regards this as a facile and untrue posture. And if there is one consistency in the theosophical teachings, it is that man must be in the world but not of the world. There is no role for a priest-king or guru, even if Avatars occurs.
Their followers need the guru as much as the guru needs his followers. I just don't regard it as a religious operation. I take a guru to be a sort of psychotherapist, and perhaps even a heretical one. At the very best, he keeps people quiet and polarized around him and gives some sort of meaning to their lives.
Some are frankly phonies, and they don't try to hide it from me. They think that I am one, too, so when we meet they begin the most disturbing conversations. They want to know how I get money, how I control people, and so on.
- - -
4.
Idries Shah said:
"People are always looking for leaders; that does not mean that this is the time for a leader. The problems that a leader would be able to resolve have not been identified. Nor does the clamor mean that those who cry out are suitable followers. Most of the people who demand a leader seem to have some baby's idea of what a leader should do. The idea that a leader will walk in and we will all recognize him and follow him and everybody will be happy strikes me as a strangely immature atavism. Most of these people, I believe, want not a leader but excitement. I doubt that those who cry the loudest would obey a leader if there was one. Talk is cheap, and a lot of the talk comes from millions of old washerwomen. "
. . . . . . .
"Getting the masses is the easy part. A guru can attract a crowd of a million in India, but few in a crowd take him seriously. You see, India has had gurus for thousands of years, so they are generally sophisticated about them; they take in the attitude with their mothers' milk. This culture just hasn't been inoculated against the guru. Let's turn it around. If I were fresh off a plane from India and told you that I was going to Detroit to become a wonderful automobile millionaire, you would smile at me. You know perfectly well the obstacles, the taxes, the ulcers that I face. Well, the Indian is in the same position with the automobile industry as the American with the guru. I'm not impressed by naive American reactions to gurus; if you can show me a guru who can pull off that racket in the East, then I will be surprised."
(Idries Shah) - http://www.katinkah esselink. net/sufi/ sufi-shah. html
The same with the many TS Adyar members and their Radha and Krishnamurti etc. etc.
So yes, CWL was silly and stupid in certain respects and in others not.
In the overall picture CWL was a man who fell on the Path. Others might disagree and promote their Christian Liberal ideas until THEIR Kingdom and saviour come. :-)
- - -
To judge or not to judge.
Dear Martin remember:
"...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at their right value; and unless a judge compares notes and hears
both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision." H.P. Blavatsky. The Theosophist, July, 1881, p. 218.
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Martin
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World NARADA - MORTEN
Was it silly or stupid? Have you known CWL? Ever talked about it with him?
Beware of judging others, you may be judged yourself...
Behind every deed there is an individual motive, and behind an individual motive is a world-karmic motive, and behind a world-karmic motive is a Lipika and behind the Lipika's is Parabrahm...
--- On Sat, 6/13/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World NARADA - MORTEN
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Saturday, June 13, 2009, 11:53 AM
The reason was the Law of Karma
And also CWL's silly or stupid love for the Christian Church!
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Cass Silva
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 4:21 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World NARADA - MORTEN
Why didn't Leadbeater rebuke the Nazis use of Blavatsky's teachings on the 5th root race.
Cass
>
>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>Sent: Saturday, 13 June, 2009 12:12:10 AM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World NARADA - MORTEN
>
>
>
>
>
>What?
>I did not get that. Please explain further what you want to know.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Cass Silva
>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:30 AM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World NARADA - MORTEN
>
>What has Leadbeater's non-action got to do with Karma?
>Cass
>
>>
>>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>>Sent: Friday, 12 June, 2009 1:28:40 AM
>>Subject: Re: Theos-World NARADA - MORTEN
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>There is the Law of Karma.
>>And the Masters do not make unwilling persons slaves.
>>
>>Yet the Law of Karma is most often not understood by many Seekers.
>>I can only emphasize this, through the knowledge have have received about this issue.
>>
>>M. Sufilight
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Cass Silva
>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>>Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:08 AM
>>Subject: Re: Theos-World NARADA - MORTEN
>>
>>I want to know why Leadbeater or any other theosophist didn't rebuke the Nazis, then or even now, for distorting the teachings of HPB.
>>
>>Cass
>>
>>>
>>>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>>>Sent: Thursday, 11 June, 2009 5:25:39 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Theos-World NARADA - MORTEN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes. But from this "necessary evil" we also immediately also has an unnecessary evil.
>>>Thats is at least logical to me.
>>>
>>>And that again will explain the Dugpa issue. - And also why the Sorcery at the Christian Vatican and its High Mass and lip-prayers might be something else than what those AAB followers would like to hear. Because the AAB followers like to Invoke their own version of Christ as an external physical human and as a giantic Male. A giant physical Male expected to come around year 2012-2040 according to their Bibles written by AAB through someone named D.K. and called a Master.
>>>Books even claiminging to be partly based on HPB's writings and books claiming that HPB's teachings will be vindicated AND justified! - ("A Treatise on Cosmic Fire", page 707-8, written 1925, by Alice A. Bailey)
>>>
>>>- - - - - - -
>>>
>>>And H. P. Blavatsky said:
>>>"The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real universal love extending even to the dumb brute".
>>>(The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246)
>>>
>>>Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter:
>>>For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican!
>>>(Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish Magicians.)
>>>
>>>M. Sufilight
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Cass Silva
>>>To: Theosophy
>>>Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 5:23 AM
>>>Subject: Theos-World NARADA - MORTEN
>>>
>>>Unfortunately my pc refuses to reply to your email so trying a new way.
>>>Cass
>>>Great, thanks for this Morten, obviously Phillip Lindsay drew off HPB. Found this sentence intriguing
>>>"Nor is it through any ambitious or selfish motive; but, verily, to serve and guide universal progress and evolution."
>>>
>>>HPB is suggesting that Narada is a neccessary evil in balancing the karmic load.
>>>So are the dugpas an enfoldment of Narada on the physical plane - or do they yet again, have a different agenda?
>>>
>>>Cass
>>>
>>>Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us. lrd.yahoo. com/_ylc= X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNp BF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2 MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gD VGV4dCBMaW5rBHRt X2xuawNVMTEwMzk3 NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFo b28hBHRtX3BvcwN0 YWdsaW5lBHRtX3Bw dHkDYXVueg- -/SIG=14600t3ni/ **http%3A/ /au.rd.yahoo. com/mail/ tagline/creative holidays/ *http%3A/ /au.docs. yahoo.com/ homepageset/ %3Fp1=other% 26p2=au%26p3= mailtagline
>>>
>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us. lrd.yahoo. com/_ylc= X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNp BF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2 MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gD VGV4dCBMaW5rBHRt X2xuawNVMTEwMzk3 NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFo b28hBHRtX3BvcwN0 YWdsaW5lBHRtX3Bw dHkDYXVueg- -/SIG=14600t3ni/ **http%3A/ /au.rd.yahoo. com/mail/ tagline/creative holidays/ *http%3A/ /au.docs. yahoo.com/ homepageset/ %3Fp1=other% 26p2=au%26p3= mailtagline
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us. lrd.yahoo. com/_ylc= X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNp BF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2 MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gD VGV4dCBMaW5rBHRt X2xuawNVMTEwMzk3 NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFo b28hBHRtX3BvcwN0 YWdsaW5lBHRtX3Bw dHkDYXVueg- -/SIG=14600t3ni/ **http%3A/ /au.rd.yahoo. com/mail/ tagline/creative holidays/ *http%3A/ /au.docs. yahoo.com/ homepageset/ %3Fp1=other% 26p2=au%26p3= mailtagline
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us. lrd.yahoo. com/_ylc= X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNp BF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2 MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gD VGV4dCBMaW5rBHRt X2xuawNVMTEwMzk3 NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFo b28hBHRtX3BvcwN0 YWdsaW5lBHRtX3Bw dHkDYXVueg- -/SIG=14600t3ni/ **http%3A/ /au.rd.yahoo. com/mail/ tagline/creative holidays/ *http%3A/ /au.docs. yahoo.com/ homepageset/ %3Fp1=other% 26p2=au%26p3= mailtagline
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Back to Top]
Theosophy World:
Dedicated to the Theosophical Philosophy and its Practical Application
