Theos-Talk Archives (June 2009 Message tt00204)

Great teachers are at best messengers, even they are sub-ordinate to others.  When one begins to think for oneself one does not need to follow others.  Leaders are by fair or foul means controllers of people's destinies.  A leader dictates his/her terms - a teacher points the way.
Cass


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>From: Antonio <spirit777child@yahoo.co.uk>
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009 8:16:05 AM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World AAB and The Maitreya and Messiah flaw
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>I fully understand your take on the word leader and can empaphise with your regarding the leaders you speak of but i would prefer to call these people you mention dictators at best and imperilaists at worst. Regarding the goal or aim of Theosophy one would have to consider the direct relation that Maitryea and the Master have with Theosophy. Maitreya is depicted by many prevelent Theosophist past and present as the world teacher that will help the world realise the theosphical movement. When this time arises i am sure the world at large will lable this being a leader amongst many other titles.
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>--- On Tue, 9/6/09, Henry B. Ellak <henrybellak@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>From: Henry B. Ellak <henrybellak@ yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: Theos-World AAB and The Maitreya and Messiah flaw
>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>Date: Tuesday, 9 June, 2009, 10:59 PM
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>But you can understand why  the expression  Leader is a turn of to
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>those who lived from say 1944 to now.
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>I was born in 1944 and the Great leader of Germany was still alive.
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>Many millions, at least 20 million people died as a result of this
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>great leader.  What is the death count of World War Two.
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>Twenty million is just the lower number.  Mosty likely the number
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>is higher.
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>Then there is the Great Leader, Stalin, and Mao of China.
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>I will not follow any Great Leader, be it Christ, Hitler, Stalin, Mao or even Maitreya.
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>Theosophy is not a cult, requiring a great leader.
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>Henry B. Ellak
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>--- On Tue, 6/9/09, Antonio <spirit777child@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote:
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>From: Antonio <spirit777child@ yahoo.co. uk>
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>Subject: Re: Theos-World AAB and The Maitreya and Messiah flaw
>
>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
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>Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 1:46 PM
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>I work as a team leader. My role is to help my team in my company objectives. To lead and teach are not worlds apart. As a team leader i would take on any reccomendations or reservations with equal interest. If a member of my team has an issue i will help them work through as my role is to lead my team. A teacher also leads however the way he/she adminsters information may change. In my opinion there have been both great teachers and great leaders as there has been many negative teachers and negative leaders. Is it not really a matter of perspective?
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>--- On Tue, 9/6/09, Henry B. Ellak <henrybellak@ yahoo.com> wrote:
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>From: Henry B. Ellak <henrybellak@ yahoo.com>
>
>Subject: Re: Theos-World AAB and The Maitreya and Messiah flaw
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>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
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>Date: Tuesday, 9 June, 2009, 8:38 PM
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>      And do not forget, many Germans saw the Love flowing from Hitler.  Hitler had
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>Love for the German people and the people, or at least a great many did, see 
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>love coming from Hitler.
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>All this talk of waiting for a Great Leader to come and lead the people, I find this
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>idea wrong.
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>Do you mean perhaps a great teacher?  People can say no to a teacher
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>without being punished for it.  Many who said No, to the great leader,
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>Hitler, were put to death.  Is this what you want your Great Leader to do?
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>I think it is a very scary idea, this idea of following a great Leader.  Sounds
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>like 1984 by G. Orwell, or perhaps  "Brave New World" of Huxley.
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>Henry B. Ellak
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>--- On Tue, 6/9/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:
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>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
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>Subject: Re: Theos-World AAB and The Maitreya and Messiah flaw
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>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 9:47 AM
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>Dear friends and Antonio
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>My views are:
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>Now I might misunderstand, and if so bear with me.
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>Because your use of words are to me quite illogical in the below quotes.
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>Antonio wrote:
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>"When i said non-existence i meant it inline of the following context and not a physical death, however this eventuality may become a reality also!"
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>No. My Knowledge says something else.
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>And I am not assuming about this.
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>All Universe sprang from ParaBrahm and returns to ParaBrahm.
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>There is nothing but ParaBrahm. And we know this is the truth.
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>Talking about "non-existence" in the sense you forwarded it, I find to be wrong.
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>Remember you said in the previous e-mail:
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>"I would have to agree. Sadly those that do not obide, those that do not see the universal love eminating from a benvolent leader will utterly perish into non-existence. "
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>The question would be if those who disbelieved Krishna or Jesus Christ was non-existent or "dead" as you put it?
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>We do not say, that a tree, which is not seeing love, because it is a tree, that it is "non-existent" or "dead". Do we?
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>Yet we know a tree on its fruits.
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>M. Sufilight
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>  ----- Original Message ----- 
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>  From: Antonio 
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>  To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
>
>  Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:27 AM
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>  Subject: Re: Theos-World AAB and The Maitreya and Messiah flaw
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>  I speak of the time when the world leader arrives to greet humanity. A process will begin in which good and evil will finally be seperated. Those that fail to take on the benevolent teachings of the world teacher will fall to the waste side. Those that adhear to his teachings will move forward in their spiritual evolution. This is what i meant by what i said and by no means was a personal attack on any individual, simply an accumilated perspective based on the the knowledge of end time prophecies i have digested over time.
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>  When i said non-existence i meant it inline of the following context and not a physical death, however this eventuality may become a reality also!
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>  "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger,who can no longer pause to wonder and stand wrapt in awe, is as good as dead." Albert Einstein
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>  Peace and blessings
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>  Antonio.
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>  --- On Tue, 9/6/09, Henry B. Ellak <henrybellak@ yahoo.com> wrote:
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>  From: Henry B. Ellak <henrybellak@ yahoo.com>
>
>  Subject: Re: Theos-World AAB and The Maitreya and Messiah flaw
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>  To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
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>  Date: Tuesday, 9 June, 2009, 2:02 AM
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>  I can only say, that I have no leader, and """"I will not utterly perish into non-existence" ""!
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>  Antonio. are you really saying, that myself and others, who do not have a leader,
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>  will utterly perish into non-existence?  I may be reading you wrong as I have been
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>  away from this  list for a while.
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>  However, I do not believe in the leader principle, I have no leader and I am 64 years old.
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>  I have not perished into non-existence by not having a leader.
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>  end        Henry B. Ellak
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>  --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Antonio <spirit777child@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote:
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>  From: Antonio <spirit777child@ yahoo.co. uk>
>
>  Subject: Re: Theos-World AAB and The Maitreya and Messiah flaw
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>  To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>  Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 5:43 PM
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>  I would have to agree. Sadly those that do not obide, those that do not see the universal love eminating from a benvolent leader will utterly perish into non-existence.
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>  Peace and blessings
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>  Antonio
>
>  --- On Mon, 8/6/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:
>
>  From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>
>  Subject: Theos-World AAB and The Maitreya and Messiah flaw
>
>  To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>  Date: Monday, 8 June, 2009, 10:37 PM
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>        Dear friends
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>  My views are:
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>  "People are always looking for leaders; that does not mean that this is the time for a leader. The problems that a leader would be able to resolve have not been identified. Nor does the clamor mean that those who cry out are suitable followers. Most of the people who demand a leader seem to have some baby's idea of what a leader should do. The idea that a leader will walk in and we will all recognize him and follow him and everybody will be happy strikes me as a strangely immature atavism. Most of these people, I believe, want not a leader but excitement. I doubt that those who cry the loudest would obey a leader if there was one. Talk is cheap, and a lot of the talk comes from millions of old washerwomen. " (Idries Shah)
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>  The Law of Karma is not bending it self down in front of ignorance.
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>  M. Sufilight
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