Theos-Talk Archives (May 2009 Message tt00752)

Daniel writes:

I find your 2004 account below quite interesting but
I am also quite puzzled by many of your statements.

For example, you write:

"Judge, who designed the ES of 1888, was appointed
by HPB as her successor as head and teacher...."

What do you base this statement on?
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Daniel, I base my statements on:
a) oral information from Elsie Benjamin, secretary to both Tingley and 
Purucker, to Berlin theosophists, whose father was eyewitness in London over 
the Judge/Besant quarrel.
b) various statements by E.S. members
c) E.S. publications like that of Joseph Fussell ("Some Incidents..." & his 
articles in the Point Loma journals).

That HPB made Judge her esoteric successor and head and teacher in the E.S. 
is based on the fact that most lay chelas of HPB were able to recognize and 
follow him.
Judge got HPB's occult ring as outer sign of the transmission line.

Another outer sign is HPB's last photo where she reveals the guruparampara.

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Daniel writes:

Where is the document that shows that "Judge...
was appointed by HPB as her successor as head and
teacher...."?

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I can't say whether there exists such a document.
I understand that the E.S. was an occult organzisation which naturally does 
not publish its documents, at least those which have to do with the 
guruparampara.
What would it help if HPB would have published a clear document which the 
muggles could understand?
I understand that the Masters did not wish to launch a new muggles church.
The orderly succession in the transmission line was the only business of the 
chelas who where concerned and not for the amusement of the world.

But perhaps even such a document exists.
Then you should ask someone who has access to those documents.

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Daniel writes:


You also write:

"Annie Besant was appointed by HPB as joint ES head in a
letter to Judge. These letter appeared out of a sudden
within a bulk of papers before Annie Besant in a meeting
(Judge precipitated it)."

"As AB as a lay chela was going through the regular
initiations she was offered the post by HPB:. for a special
time period of probation."

What letter to Judge?

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I was writing out from memory.
I refered to that letter which AB read in the IG meeting, where Judge was 
present.
Most likely it is in your compiliation of the I.G. minutes or in Judge's 
collected works.


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Daniel writes:

You also say Besant was offered the post by HPB for a
special time period...

Again where are you obtaining this information?

Can you tell us what documents you are basing your
opinion on?

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the information that AB was not a teacher, but a pupil in the E.S. is
a) from Elsie Benjamin
b) from Fussell's pamphlet "Incidents..."

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Daniel writes:

Are you saying that Judge was Besant's teacher????

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In the same sense as HPB was Besant's teacher.
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Daniel writes:

Who was Besant's teacher??

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When Judge was teacher in the E.S. and Besant was a member of it, then it is 
logical, who was Besant's teacher.
Besant was not a teacher, she became Recorder of the Teachings.
That is not the same.

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Daniel writes:

I would suggest that readers should be as cautious
in accepting many of your statements as they should be
of various statements made on this forum in favor
of Besant and Leadbeater.


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I also suggest that readers should always be cautions, including my humble 
comments.
Perhaps someone should scan Fussell's E.S. history articles from the "Forum" 
and his pamphlets.
I think this could clarify much.

Frank