Theos-Talk Archives (May 2009 Message tt00720)

If is as powerful as an avatar is supposed to be the government would not  
be able to stop him.
 
Chuck the Heretic
 
 
In a message dated 5/22/2009 8:07:44 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
silva_cass@yahoo.com writes:

 
 


Nonsense- the government would employ him for their own  use
Cass

________________________________
From:  Morten Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@global-thgl_ 
(mailto:global-theosophy@stofanet.dk) >
To:  _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) 
Sent:  Friday, 22 May, 2009 5:02:27 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey  "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?

Perhaps.
But, Sai Baba has  explained this, with the fact, that if he did it - the 
government would come  and put him away - probably due to karmic issues.
So the Avatar has certain  limitations.

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message ----- 
From:  Cass Silva 
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009  1:27 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of  Truth"?

If Sai Baba's paranormal tricks were authentic - he would have  produced a 
ton of diamonds and sold them to clear the slums in India - instead  he 
feeds off old superstitions to gain favour as an enlightened guru.  

Cass

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Morten Nymann  Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
To: theos-talk@yahoogro  ups.com
Sent: Friday, 22 May, 2009 2:40:00 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World  Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?

Dear Antonio and  friends

My views are:

Maybe it is just me, but are your  statement not self-contradicting.

I ask:
How can you say that  Benjamin Creme is allright when he says that Sai Baba 
is a Cosmic Avatar and  higher than his own claimed Maitreya Avatar, - and 
then go on to say that Sai  Baba is false and fake? You simply lost me there?

- - -
It would be  helpful if you would document your views instead of almost 
saying that  "belief" is more valid than actual knowledge.

Why is it wrong when Sai  Baba makes what he calls materialisations and 
others kinds of  parapsychological activities? 

I mean to some persons reading or  driving a car is pure magic, to others 
it is quite natural and is done out  compassion. So what is the actual 
difference?

M. Sufilight

-----  Original Message ----- 
From: Antonio/Tony None 
To: theos-talk@yahoogro  ups.com 
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World  Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?

As a response to this  i saw a youtuube video of Sai Baba doing stage magic 
terribally badly. If you  like i would be happy to post this but it may 
distort your opinion of him. In  my opinion any spiritually enlightened master 
would simply not engage in  something of this nature. Regarding BC and Sai 
Baba following the exact same  paths i would have to dissagree. The same way 
you can have two people working  for the same organisation , they are still 
both individuals and their beleifs,  intentions and choices and actions will 
always differ to ceartian degrees. I  have seen enough of BC to know he is 
noble in nature and wants a positive  conclusion to the chaos in this world. 
Wether this is an extreamly good act or  not i do not know but until i see 
otherwise i will not assume.

Peace  and Blessings
Antonio

--- On Thu, 21/5/09, Morten Nymann Olesen  <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> 
wrote:

From: Morten Nymann  Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was  Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
To: theos-talk@yahoogro  ups.com
Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 8:29 AM

Dear Cass and  friends

My views are:

And you are of course able to document the  view that Sai Baba are a fraud?

I suggest you read the words by Al  Khidr taken from the not 
to-be-read-dead- letter Quran before  answering.

Al Khidr (The Green Guide. The Master of the Masters.)
_http://en.wikipedia_ (http://en.wikipedia/)   .org/wiki/ Al-Khidr

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message -----  
From: Cass Silva 
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
Sent: Thursday,  May 21, 2009 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New  Torch-Bearer of Truth"?

Sai Baba and Crene are both frauds - Crene may  be delusional but Sai Baba 
knows how to exploit for  gain
Cass

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Morten Nymann  Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
To: theos-talk@yahoogro  ups.com
Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 2009 8:08:22 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World  Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?

Dear  friends

My views are:

On Share Internationals website we have  the following:

"Maitreya and other well-known figures

This page  sheds some light into the relationship between Maitreya and some 
well-known  figures such as Sai Baba, the Buddha, Krishna and Krishnamurti. 
This  information is excerpted from the books by Benjamin Creme."
"Maitreya &  Sai Baba

Sri Sathy Sai BabaSai Baba is a teacher or guru in south India  with an 
enormous following. Hundreds of thousands, perhaps one or two million  people 
from all over the world would claim to be his devotees. These Followers  see 
him as God, the creator of the universe. He is a cosmic avatar. Sai Baba  
and Maitreya both embody the same energy--what we call the Christ principle,  
the energy of Love --- Sai Baba at the cosmic level, Maitreya at the 
planetary  level."
_http://www.share-_ (http://www.share-/)  international. org/maitreya/  
Ma_others. htm

So if one follows Cremes views, one might just the same  or even better 
follow Sai Babas?
If so, why do we have to believe that  there is more than one Avatar, when 
Sai Baba never mentions Cremes Maitreya  Avatar?

So why indeed use the Great Invocation written by Alice A.  Bailey so to 
accomplish her views given in the book named "The Externalization  of the 
Hierarchy"?

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message -----  
From: Antonio/Tony None 
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
Sent:  Wednesday, May 20, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey  "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?

Dear Leon,

Thanks for your  response.(Theos- World Was Alice Bailey "the New 
Torch-Bearer of  Truth"?)

It would be very interesting from my perspective to know of  these 4 
musicians. Are there any links i could look into please?

I  overstand your skepticsm and think it is valient. One should never 
accept any  movement for total peace or total anarchy with blind faith but 
instead should  evaluate the intricacies of that movement and make an intuitive 
decision as to  wether or not its intentions are good or evil. In my case i am 
a total  believer in love and peace and i am always considerate and 
compassionate when  i see injustic in our world. My aim is simply to bring to light 
a philosophy  or ideal which i feel will make the world a better place and 
yes we shall see  how the labum impacts. I will post a link on this thread 
nearer the time of  its release for all to listen to and digest and reflect 
and offer opinions  on.

Regarding BC, I am also of the beleif that he may be working for  the very 
people who want to impose a globalist agenda of control on the world.  
Perhaps if he has to accept the possibilty of a truely benevolent Maitreya  
through pressures from humanity his individual beliefs or plans would not come  
to fruition but those of Maitreya will. Lets hope this is the case or that BC 
 is himself benevolent and wishes for love and peace in a chaotic  world.

I am in agreement with you comment about christ consciousness  and self 
realisation. I beleive that each of us have the ability to become  gods. When i 
say gods i mean it in the purest eseence of love and peace.  Mastered 
individuals that see and feel the interconectedness of all of  humanity. My album 
is about raising this awareness in each of us. Wether or  not Christ 
himself returns is a matter of speculation. That fact is totally  out of my hands 
and in part irrelevent to my particular chosen path. All i can  do is follow 
my beleifs and continue to better myself in order to serve  humanity in the 
most productive and peacful way possible.

I have read  up on the ancient mystery schools that came out of egypt and 
that are now  administered in most secret societies and how these degrees 
circumnavigate the  tree of life, ultimatly leading to enligtenment. Wether 
this is effective or  not i do not know but i guess the only way to find out is 
to immerse yourself  in that world and work your way to the top as the 
proof is in the pudding.  Personally i choose to tread my own made path as i 
know my end goal is self  realisation and enlightenment in its purest form of 
love and truth.

i  have seen the video of the indian self proclaimed mesiah and his silly 
hand  trick that didnt quite come off! how very silly. These fabricators and 
dupers  will always eventually be exposed it is just a shame that a handfull 
of  followers commit themselves to these types of individuals through blind 
faith  without question. In the end crime never pays ;)

Peace and  blessings
Antonio

--- On Wed, 20/5/09, Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@  aol. com> wrote:

From: Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@ aol.  com>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of  Truth"?
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Wednesday, 20 May, 2009,  5:04 AM

Hi Antonio,

Since everyone here could be reading our  letters, and don't always 

save read messages, it would be a good idea  to quote whatever 

posting you are responding to.

As I have said  all I needed to about your ideas and plans in my last 

correspondence,  we'll just have to wait and see if your visions are 

real and the  future you predict will be realized in this century, if 

not in our  lifetimes.

I may be a bit jaded and skeptical -- since you are the  fourth self 

proclaimed music maven messiah I have encountered since  the mid 

1940s. I'm still waiting for any of the prophesies they made  to come 

true. One of them, a very successful musician (whom I met in  the 

60's and toked with in NY Central Park during the 70s) even got  

eliminated by the dark side powers that be -- when he came too close  

to initiating his revolution to bring peace and love to the world.  

So, there's no way to know whether he was the real messiah (although  

his music still lives on with his message -- that continues to  

influence many people to think and act theosophically) .

In the  meantime, we'll all look forward to your forthcoming album -- 

with the  hope that it can really help change the world and bring it 

closer to  peace, love, and universal brotherhood.

To answer your question... I  don't think there that any true 

theosophist -- (many of whom are NOT  active members of the splintered 

Theosophical Society) -- could ever  consider Creme a theosophist or 

that the man who calls himself  Maitreya, is the Messiah he claims to 

be -- since the theosophical  Masters themselves do not believe in a 

personal God or his supposed  avatars in the flesh. As the great 

teacher Jesus said, "you shall know  them by their fruits." So, the 

fact that Creme believes in Maitreya  makes it obvious that he may be 

one of the tools of the "New World  Order" conspiracy.

And, it also should be obvious that the Christ's  (NOT Jesus) apparent 

"return" has already occurred within every true  theosophist who has 

achieved self realization, merged his higher self  with the Universal 

Self, and has become a nucleus of universal  brotherhood -- the prima 

object of the theosophical  movement.

Therefore, no one can claim he is the ONLY Christ-Messiah, in  order 

to rule and be worshipped and followed... Like the Pharaohs of  

ancient Egypt... None of whom could perform any true miracles --  

other than fooling ignorant people with the same, apparently magical,  

knowledge used by both Jesus and Moses (and even HPB, who also knew  

all the rules of "glamour" and "Mesmerism" -- like the "Fakirs" in  

India).

No doubt the current Maitreya claimant uses those same  "stage magic" 

techniques to fool the superstitious Hindu mobs who  attend his 

meetings in India.

Good luck with your  album.

Best wishes,

Leon

On May 18, 2009, at 5/18/095:11  PM, Antonio/Tony None wrote:

> Hi Leon,

>

>  Thanks for your indepth feedback.

>

> I have taken on  board your points of view and what seems to be a 

> vast wealth of  knowledge, well articulated in your reply.

>

> I can't  help the beliefs that i have, they are a result of my life 

>  experiences. I beleive it is my calling to break down what the new  

> world order is and what their true agenda is. I would have to  agree 

> that the new world order is a powerful ideal one that could  

> potential destroy or heal the world in which we  live.

>

> The fact remains that regardless of your  beliefs, the powers that 

> be will indeed see their plans come to  fruition. The TS in my 

> opinion has many faces. It is the  culmination of opinions and 

> ideals of each member that create the  future for the TS.

>

> I have recently watched a few of  Krishnamurti' s lectures and i saw 

> him talking at the UN and  being introduced as the World Teacher. 

> Although i respect his  views i still think he was far off the mark 

> in terms of what i  would percieve the real world teacher to be.

>

> Benjamin  creme a self proclaimed theosphist believes in Maitreya 

> and i am  not quite sure what to make of that fact. Is this not a 

> common  beleief amongst members of the TS?

>

> There are many  conflicting views and i can see why the TS is being 

> torn and  sides are being formed. My real aim is to break down the 

> viel of  secrecy and show people what is really going on. I honestly 

>  beleive that the false messiah will actually fool the very elite. 

>  those who beleive he will be used as another pupet to bring about 

>  their agenda. However i think this is where Maitreya will come into  

> his element and expose the very people that think he is working  for 

> them. They say if you cant beat them join them. That is the  only 

> way to beat them, from within.

>

> If my  album makes some waves and i am sure with the confession of 

> who i  am in my songs it will. Then i hope that the powers that be 

> will  wake up and realise that i am here to help them with their 

> plans.  Once inside the devils house i will use love to contaminate 

> the  evils and thus turn power inside out.

>

> The fact that  Maitreya is not destined to arrive for sometime 

> according to your  calculations does not deter me in my efforts as 

> time is not  relevent to my end goal. The fact is this earth will 

> long perish  before the time of Maitryea's arrival based on buddhist 

>  calculations.

>

> My time to act is now. My life will be  put on the line. What i am 

> talking about in my music could lead  me to public ridicule 

> something i am willing to sacrafice for  change.

>

> The bottom line is i know that Maitryea is a  false prophet and i 

> also know that without this false prophet  Christ can not reapear. 

> So in order to bring about Christs coming  i am willing to be the 

> antichrist or false messiah. I want to  make that sacrafice. I feel 

> that is my  calling.

>

> So i will follow my beleifs to the end and  see where my album takes 

> me.

>

> That  overshadowing experience is one i want back. That was the only 

>  time in my life that i felt complete, connected and truely at 

>  peace. That is what i am aiming for and i feel when my life's work  

> is complete i can either totally let go of that part of my life  or 

> totally embrace it based on the reaction of my  material.

>

> I have had amaizing visions of the future  and one based on love and 

> peace and ultimatly that is what i am  fighting for in the best and 

> most powerful way i  know.

>

> So it is obvious we have two very different  points of view and i 

> respect yours and know that it is more of an  educated enriched 

> perspective of the matters which we speak of  but i must follow what 

> i beleive in with all my heart and hope to  make positive change as 

> a result.

>

> We  shall see on the 22nd of July how east london reacts to my 

>  campaign. Hopefully it will cause a stir and kick start a 

>  revolution. But we will see.

>

> Peace and  blessings

> Antonio.

>

>

> --- On Mon,  18/5/09, Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@ aol. com>  wrote:

>

> From: Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@ aol.  com>

> Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New  Torch-Bearer of 

> Truth"?

> To: theos-talk@yahoogro  ups.com

> Date: Monday, 18 May, 2009, 8:49  PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>  Antonio,

>

>

>

> I don't want to burst  your bubble, but that's the same kind of talk

>

> that the  early founders of the Catholic Church used -- that ended  up

>

> causing long periods of warfare and pogroms that  caused deaths,

>

> injuries, broken families and  destruction of homes of countless

>

> millions of  people.

>

>

>

> No matter what the  motives are of the "false prophet" (Matthew

>

> 7:15-20)  calling himself "Maitreya" (actually destined to come at  the

>

> end of Kali Yuga in about 400,000 years from now)  -- who comes to

>

> supposedly take charge of the global  "New World Order" government --

>

> it will be his  sycophant inner circle of followers who will actually

>

>  rule.

>

>

>

> And, as is well known to  all students of history -- such absolute

>

> power, in the  hands of unenlightened and greedy people, always

>

>  corrupts absolutely. So, any government based on organized  religion

>

> centered around a divine Messianic  figurehead, and dependent on

>

> restrictive dictatorial  laws to control the thoughts and actions of

>

> the  people, is destined to fail.

>

>

>

>  My hope (not fear) is that such a police state dictatorial  government

>

> never sneaks up on us -- like was attempted  recently by another sweet

>

> talking Jesus Christ loving,  born again evangelical Christian -- who

>

> slyly stole an  election, became the US President and lied us into a

>

>  seemingly endless religious war -- with the help of his cabal of  evil

>

> minded political cronies. So, count on me to be  one of the many

>

> enemies of this false Messiah posing  as Maitreya, and the New World

>

> Order shadow government  that backs him -- whoever he is or they  are.

>

>

>

> I'm afraid that any true  theosophist who has already, or is studying

>

> and  practicing to reach full self realization, knows that none of  the

>

> works of man can ever solve the problems that  man's works (guided by

>

> edicts and rules created and  sanctioned by their leaders, and

>

> condoned by their  personal greeds) has created. And no dictatorial

>

>  government set up to solve those problems can flourish without  such

>

> power, in the hands of the few, ending up just as  corrupt as all

>

> revolutionary movements eventually  become, when they take over

>

> dictatorial control of  governing peoples lives.

>

>

>

> Of  course, no real theosophist is for a fully self governed,  "no

>

> rules" world... That is, untll ALL people are self  realized and

>

> enlightened. But, until then, the only  good government would be a

>

> true democratic government  "of the people, by the people, and for the

>

> people"...  With a leadership that can be kicked out when the  people

>

> decide they are not serving the purpose they  were elected for.

>

> Surely,, such a government will  never be ideal... But it is certainly

>

> better than any  dictatorship or monarchy over the long  run.

>

>

>

> And, agreed, the global  monetary system would have to be radically

>

> changed if  such a true democracy could work effectively. But, we

>

>  must never forget that each group of people with similar  customs

>

> would have to remain free to practice them  without interference -- so

>

> long as they harm no one.  So, a homogenous global governed world by

>

> any  dictatorial religious leader is not a realistic solution to  the

>

> world  problems.

>

>

>

> As it stands, the  "New World Order" government you speak of, is the

>

> same  old plan for world dictatorship and takeover of the  global

>

> economy by the "Secret Society" of world  bankers and brokers -- who

>

> are just waiting for  another phony Messiah to, knowingly or

>

> unknowingly,  act as their stooge in the role of world dictator --

>

>  under their guidance and  control.

>

>

>

> In no way can the  ancient brotherhood of non interfering Masters and

>

>  Adepts be confused with this New World Order cabal of greedy  elitists

>

> and would be dictatorial  monarchists.

>

>

>

> While I don't  believe in your personal God or his supposed coming

>

>  savior, I don't doubt your good intentions.. . Although, there is  an

>

> old truism saying that "the road to hell is paved  with good

>

> intentions."  ;-)

>

>

>

> But, be assured that no  true theosophist has to worry about

>

> "releasing the  devil that is (supposedly) within them." ;-) The only

>

>  one's who have such devils in them are those who would  sacrifice

>

> individual liberty to a dictatorial  government. So, maybe you should

>

> study the fundamental  teachings of theosophy before you start

>

> preaching to  those who truly understand and follow its Heart  Doctrine.

>

>

>

> So, stick with your  love-teaching music, and stop trying to convert

>

> into  your religious beliefs, theosophists or any other  spiritually

>

> minded independent thinkers who, while  they, too, may respect your

>

> ideals, won't fall for  smarmy, holier than thou talk -- when its

>

> underlying  motives lead to any sort of mind-controlling,

>

>  dictatorially religious governmental  organization.

>

>

>

> Incidentally,  after going back in my unread letter files and reading

>

>  about your "overshadowing" as you call it -- I think you may  have

>

> experienced unconscious mediumistic Astral  epiphanies that could have

>

> been falsely interpreted as  spiritual experiences. .. If so, I

>

> recommend that you  study some of the articles written by Blavatsky

>

> about  the Astral realm and the errors and dangers of such  mediumship,

>

> as contrasted with true adeptship.  According to the occult laws,

>

> there is no way for a  living individual to contact an entity on the

>

>  spiritual plane -- although there are entities on the astral  plane

>

> (Buddhists call "hungry ghosts") that could  mislead and be quite

>

> evilly dangerous to a non adept.  You can find such articles at:

>

> _http://www.blavatsk_ (http://www.blavatsk/)   y.net/blavatsky/ 
blavatsky- articles. htmt

>

> Try this  one for starters:

>

> _http://www.blavatsk_ (http://www.blavatsk/)  y.net/blavatsky/  
arts/CaseOfObses sion.htm

>

>

>

>  Apparently your jumping from one mystical teaching to another  and

>

> your psychiatric breakdown experience are signs  that should not be

>

> ignored before your next Astral  experience, unsolicited visions, or

>

> uncontrolled  kundalini awakening causes irrevocable damage...  (That,

>

> incidentally, could be especially dangerous if  you have ever or are

>

> now using psychoactive  drugs.)

>

>

>

> Best  wishes,

>

>

>

> Leon  Maurer

>

>

>

> On May 13, 2009, at  5/13/097:28 AM, Antonio/Tony None  wrote:

>

>

>

>> Hi  Leon,

>

>>

>

>> I overstand your  stance and your world views for a future based on

>

>>  no rules. I feel this is commendable and eventually will become  a

>

>> reality. Before this occurs the chaos in the  world needs to be

>

>> addressed. I feel that the  worlds choas needs to be drawn to one

>

>> central  point and at that moment when the world awakens to the  true

>

>> realisation will that point be destroyed and  thus allow humanity to

>

>> move forward void of  negative emotion. Fear surrounding the new

>

>> world  orders plan is natural but the fact remains the  freternal

>

>> brotherhood do exist and they do have an  agenda to centralise all

>

>> power to one operating  body. This is a very worrying and yet

>

>> exciting  propesition. As head of this order, Maitreya will  change

>

>> both internally and externally the  processes by which we as humans

>

>> operate. From  re-education, to the eradication of weapons. To

>

>>  sharing with one another as a spiritual rush and taking  the

>

>> monetary system totally out of the equation.  The fact that

>

>> Maitrey may come to us via music is  not something that should be

>

>> dismissed. God's  biggest gift to Lucifer was music. My album will

>

>>  be different and will totally challange spiritual concepts in  our

>

>> reality but that will also be down to peoples  interpretation.

>

>> People like yourself unwilling to  accept such a movement as being

>

>> anything other  than genuine and devinly inspired. You are the

>

>>  people i need to reach most, the lost ones in the dark,  searching

>

>> for the light, hoping for one day to  realese the devil from within

>

>> you. Armegeddon is  as much an inward battle as a world

>

>>  transformation. It is ultimatly about vanquishing the evils  from

>

>> within and emerging evolved into a connected  higher state of

>

>> consciousness. If you fail to take  this change on board your evils

>

>> will overwhelm and  overcome you and evetually destroy you. So i

>

>> hope  and pray that when you receive my words and my music that  you

>

>> look on it with an open heart and you see the  true intentions. The

>

>> intent to change a dying  world through that one binding universal

>

>> truth.  Love.

>

>>

>

>> Peace and  blessings

>

>>  Antonio

>

>>

>

>> --- On Wed,  13/5/09, Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@ aol. com>  wrote:

>

>>

>

>> From: Leon  Maurer <leonmaurer@ aol. com>

>

>> Subject: Re:  Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer  of

>

>> Truth"?

>

>> To:  theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com

>

>> Date: Wednesday, 13  May, 2009, 12:36  AM

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

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>>

>

>>  Since the Masters knew what problems resulted from  the

>

>> revealing  of

>

>>

>

>> their names by  their first messenger (HPB) -- do you think they  (or

>

>>

>

>> their successors)  would make the same mistake again when the  new

>

>>

>

>> messenger begins  the new  mission?

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>  And, by all the rules set down by the Masters (and  promulgated

>

>>

>

>> through  HPB) -- wouldn't the actual work on that mission have  to

>

>>

>

>> begin in I975 by  someone already mature in the practical ways of  the

>

>>

>

>> modern world,  fully educated and experienced in ALL the fine  and

>

>>

>

>> applied arts of  current science, engineering and all levels of  high

>

>>

>

>> technology  communication -- while also being fully indoctrinated  with

>

>>

>

>> the theosophical  teachings -- to at least the beginning of  adeptship

>

>>

>

>> -- as was  HPB when she began her mission in  1875?

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>  And, wouldn't all the occult powers -- that also attracted hordes  of

>

>>

>

>> superficial  sycophants and resulted in many fraudulent  copycats

>

>>

>

>> during and  after HPB's time -- be intentionally withheld from  their

>

>>

>

>> new agent (such  as the power of foresight and other siddhis  was

>

>>

>

>> withheld from  HPB)?

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>  Obviously, of course, none of the present Masters would ever  reveal

>

>>

>

>> themselves,  personally, or allow their messenger to expose  their

>

>>

>

>> names this time  around. There would also no longer be a need  to

>

>>

>

>> attract members to  the teachings through an organization, or to  a

>

>>

>

>> notorious  personality. .. Since all that now matters would be  to

>

>>

>

>> prove the  theosophical teachings beyond a shadow of a doubt,  free

>

>>

>

>> each human to be  their own judge and master, as well as discredit  all

>

>>

>

>> forms of organized  religion based on supernatural causation,  personal

>

>>

>

>> Gods,  vicarious atonement and living  messiahs.

>

>>

>

>>  .

>

>>

>

>> Think about all  that, and try to imagine anyone in the  Theosophical

>

>>

>

>> Society,  or appointed by its leaders, being in a position to  fill

>

>>

>

>> that role...  Especially, anyone who is not fully indoctrinated  into

>

>>

>

>> the entire secret  doctrine -- as thoroughly taught by HPB in ALL  her

>

>>

>

>>  writings.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>  Didn't William Q. Judge say that there were only three  books

>

>>

>

>> necessary to  fully comprehend theosophy -- which were, the  Secret

>

>>

>

>> Doctrine, the  Bhagavad Gita, and the Yoga Aphorisms of  Patanjali?

>

>>

>

>> (Is it any  wonder, then, why he transliterated all three --  along

>

>>

>

>> with their  detailed commentaries and answers to  questions?)

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>  Isn't it, then, also obvious why the real identity of the  messenger

>

>>

>

>> could not be  revealed until the actual scientific "proof" of  the

>

>>

>

>> Secret Doctrine  metaphysics actually shows up in the  scientific

>

>>

>

>> journals  and the mass media, and becomes worldwide public  knowledge?

>

>>

>

>> And, even  then, the true messenger will not be known, since  the

>

>>

>

>> accredited, peer  reviewable physicists who win the prize for such  a

>

>>

>

>> proof will never  acknowledge who or what inspired them --  (as

>

>>

>

>> Einstein never  would think of giving credit to HPB for  his

>

>>

>

>> theories.;-)  See:

>

>>

>

>> _http://leonmaurer._ (http://leonmaurer./)   info/einstein.  html

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>  Only, then, will all true theosophists recognize the new  teachings

>

>>

>

>> (with no  need to make the retired messenger their leader) and  rally

>

>>

>

>> together as true  "companions" to form the nucleus of the  "universal

>

>>

>

>>  brotherhood" ... That, by their example, teaches the rest of the  

>> world

>

>>

>

>>  the true meaning and practice of the Heart Doctrine of theosophy  as

>

>>

>

>> the basis of *true*  democratic government.. . With no need of  a

>

>>

>

>> messiah and his  hierarchical leadership, New World Order police  state

>

>>

>

>> governments,  personal gods, priests, or religious  organizations.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>  Thus, anyone who claims to be the new messenger, world  teacher,

>

>>

>

>> messiah,  returned Christ, Maitreya, etc., before (or after)  that

>

>>

>

>> time, would  necessarily be an impostor (or false prophet). And,  the

>

>>

>

>> biggest joke of  all is the delusional idea that the "new  message"

>

>>

>

>> will be in  the form of a musical album, sung by the messiah

>

>>  himself  ;-)

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>  So, let's stop this endless speculative nonsense, and knuckle down  to

>

>>

>

>> learning and  teaching pure theosophy -- so we'll all be ready  when

>

>>

>

>> that "new  message" shows up... And, afterward, have no need  for

>

>>

>

>> organizations or  leaders to tell us how to act (as one) in  whatever

>

>>

>

>> way is  necessary to turn this world back into the paradise it  was

>

>>

>

>> meant to  be.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>  Best wishes,

>

>>

>

>> Leon  Maurer

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>  On May 11, 2009, at 5/11/099:55 PM, Cass Silva  wrote:

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>>  Does this mean that the person was born in 1975 - which would  now

>

>>

>

>>> make him 35  years old or that in 1975 his mission  began?

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  Cass

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  ____________ _________ _________  __

>

>>

>

>>> From:  danielhcaldwell <danielhcaldwell@  yahoo.com>

>

>>

>

>>> To:  theos-talk@yahoogro  ups.com

>

>>

>

>>> Sent:  Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 3:25:00  AM

>

>>

>

>>> Subject:  Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer  of

>

>>>  Truth"?

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of  Truth"?

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  Alice Bailey claimed that "her teachings came from the same  Occult

>

>>

>

>>> Brotherhood  that taught HP Blavatsky . . . . Bailey's  guide

>

>>

>

>>> professed to  be the same Djual Khool that was one of  HPB's

>

>>

>

>>> teachers.  Bailey also declared that her guru was the same  Master

>

>>

>

>>> Koot Hoomi  that Blavatsky  knew."

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  Many Bailey students have quoted the following passage  from

>

>>

>

>>> H.P.B.'s pen  in supporting the claim that Alice Bailey was  the

>

>>

>

>>> expected new  messenger of the Masters in the 20th  century:

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  "In Century the Twentieth some disciple more informed, and  far

>

>>

>

>>> better fitted,  may be sent by the Masters of Wisdom to give  final

>

>>

>

>>> and  irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science called  Gupta-

>

>>

>

>>> Vidya; and  that . . . the source of all religions  and

>

>>

>

>>> philosophies .  . . has been for many ages forgotten and lost  to

>

>>

>

>>> men, but is at  last found." S.D., 1888, Vol I, p. xxxviii  (original

>

>>

>

>>>  edition)

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  But Students should compare this 1888 statement with the  following

>

>>

>

>>> two  passages from HPB's pen. The first extract was written  in

>

>>

>

>>> December 1888  and the second one dates from the middle of  1889.

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  The first passage  reads:

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  "Let every member [of the Esoteric Section] know . . . that  the

>

>>

>

>>> time for such  priceless acquisition is limited. The writer of  the

>

>>

>

>>> present is  old; her life is well-nigh worn out, and she may  be

>

>>

>

>>> summoned 'home'  any day and almost any hour. And if her place  is

>

>>

>

>>> even filled up,  perchance by another worthier and more learned  than

>

>>

>

>>> herself,  still there remain but twelve years to the last hour  of

>

>>

>

>>> the term -  namely, till December the 31st, 1899. Those who will  not

>

>>

>

>>> have profited  by the opportunity (given to the world in every  last

>

>>

>

>>> quarter of a  century), those who will not have reached a  certain

>

>>

>

>>> point of  psychic and spiritual development, or that point  from

>

>>

>

>>> which begins  the cycle of adeptship, by that day - those  will

>

>>

>

>>> advance no  further than the knowledge already acquired. No  Master

>

>>

>

>>> of Wisdom  from the East will appear or send any one to Europe  or

>

>>

>

>>> America after  that period, and the sluggards will have to  renounce

>

>>

>

>>> every  chance

>

>>

>

>>> of  advancement in their present incarnation - until the year  1975.

>

>>

>

>>> Such is the  LAW, for we are in Kali Yuga - the Black Age - and  the

>

>>

>

>>> restrictions  in this cycle, the first 5,000 years of which  will

>

>>

>

>>> expire in  1897, are great and almost insuperable. " HPB's  Collected

>

>>

>

>>>  Writings, Vol XII, pp. 491-492. Italics  added.

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  The second passage is as  follows:

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  ". . .during the last quarter of every hundred years an attempt  is

>

>>

>

>>> made by those  'Masters' . . . to help on the spiritual progress  of

>

>>

>

>>> Humanity in a  marked and definite way. Towards the close of  each

>

>>

>

>>> century you  will invariably find that an outpouring or upheaval  of

>

>>

>

>>> spirituality -  or call it mysticism if you prefer - has  taken

>

>>

>

>>> place. Some  one or more persons have appeared in the world as  their

>

>>

>

>>> agents, and  a greater or less amount of occult knowledge  and

>

>>

>

>>> teaching has  been given out . . . . .If the present attempt, in  the

>

>>

>

>>> form of our  Society, succeeds better than its predecessors  have

>

>>

>

>>> done, then it  will be in existence as an organized, living  and

>

>>

>

>>> healthy body  when the time comes for the effort of the  XXth

>

>>

>

>>> century. The  general condition of men's minds and hearts will  have

>

>>

>

>>> been improved  and purified by the spread of its teachings . . .  .

>

>>

>

>>> but besides a  large

>

>>

>

>>> and  accessible literature ready to men's hands, the next  impulse

>

>>

>

>>> will find  a numerous and united body of people ready to welcome  the

>

>>

>

>>> new  torch-bearer of Truth. He will find the minds of men  prepared

>

>>

>

>>> for his  message, a language ready for him in which to clothe  the

>

>>

>

>>> new truths he  brings, an organization awaiting his arrival . . .  ."

>

>>

>

>>> The Key to  Theosophy, pp. 306-7. Italics  added.

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  The three passages taken together indicate that HPB was  referring

>

>>

>

>>> to an  emissary of the Masters coming in 1975 or later.  These

>

>>

>

>>> statements  by HPB would seem to rule out the messenger being  Alice

>

>>

>

>>> Bailey or  many other claimants. For a list of such claimants,  see:

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  _http://blavatskyarc_ (http://blavatskyarc/)  hives.com/  
latermessengers.  htm#six

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  Daniel

>

>>

>

>>> _http://hpb.cc_ (http://hpb.cc/) 

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

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>>>

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>>

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>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

>

>>

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>>>

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>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  ------------ --------- ---------  ------

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>  Yahoo! Groups  Links

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

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>>  [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

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>>  [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

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>>  ------------ --------- ---------  ------

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>> Yahoo! Groups  Links

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> Yahoo! Groups  Links

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