Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
May 22, 2009 01:35 AM
by Antonio/Tony None
Dear Morten,
I am glad we can find resolutions amongst the chaos :)
Peace and blessings
Antonio
--- On Fri, 22/5/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 22 May, 2009, 8:08 AM
Thanks you for your answer.
I am happy to learn that you found my answer useful.
And your assumptions about miracles are part of the ones I use.
The e-mail can be read again from time to time if in need.
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Antonio/Tony None
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
Hi Morten,
Fair enough. I guess i can relate in that my album will be my calling card and as Sai babas trick did not come off so too might my album not come off. In this respect i can overstand your take on things. In saying this i still think someone enlightened would not consider the actions sai babe considerd and on this it may be better for us to agree to dissagree.
Regarding the information you sent in this email.
Firstly in my opinion what i percieve is ment by the first statment is that one must adapt to as a teacher to the level of learning of his pupil. Personally i feel there are more appropriate ways sai baba could have done this than stage magic.
Yes it is a sensetive matter in that you must be extreamly careful how you administer your teachings as people will be more than happy to pick holes in the way you teach. On this occasion i think sai baba's actions are a perfect case in point.
Regarding the second statment which i found quite interesting:
Disorder is a human condition and until we are perfected human we will always need theraputic approaches in dealing with this. I think what is meant by this statement is not to confuse this with wisdom teaching and the esoteric in that the two should be seperated and the esoteric wisdoms should not be applied in dealing with ones chaos and dissorder of mind. Rather that the esoteric teachings should be delved into with the clearest of minds. if this simple rule is not followed i would agree that the teachings could be miscontrude and what goes into the machine will come out totally distorted.
The last statment did not make sense in my opinion perhaps there are words missing?
From what i can assume the statement is trying to bring to light the fact that miracles happen to enlightened masters and people percieveing this may or may not take hold of these happenings through the need to associate with something beyond the norm. But as i say this is very unclear to me. Perhaps a better break down would merit better insight on my part.
Thank you for the link i will aim to have a look, time permitting.
Peace and blessings
Antonio
--- On Thu, 21/5/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 9:18 PM
Allright.
I also do care.
Antionio wrote:
"Why he would wish to do this i dont know?"
I know that Sai Baba has said that his parapsychological activities are due to him using them as a "calling-card" - to get attention from people, so that they might be more open minded in listening to what he has to say to them.
Sai Baba's teachings are coinciding a whole lot with Adwaita Vedanta and Patanjali teachings.
********
The following from Idries Shah's corpus might be helpful to consider:
"What is so perplexing to conditioned attitudes about Wisdom teachers is that, unlike teachers of other kinds, they refuse to stick to one kind of appearance. As an example, if you go to see a Wisdom Teacher, he/she may not look, talk or act like a mystical master at all. This is because he/she says either: 'You can teach only by the method indicated for each pupil, and you may have to teach by what seems to him/her unlikely'; or else because he/she says: 'There is a time and a place and certain company. According to these, we will teach. When it is time to be serious, we will be serious. When it is time to work through what looks like ordinary things, we have to do so.'
So importan is this lesson that it can be said to go before all others: in the sense that failure to know this can prevent you from learning more - and can leave you attached to externals of hypocrites. This includes, of course, unconscious hypocrites.
If the Masters are right in their claim that time affects behaviour, and that personal appearance should change (and even temperament) then obviously all the people who cultivate a reveend appearance, and all those who acquire it, mistaking this for spirituality, are wrong."
......
"The genesis of the attitude adopted by the people of externals is that their invard drive is for finding tidiness, order. This is not a spiritual activity, it is perhaps, rather, a therapeutic one. Order is essential for disordered people. Looking for it as a major factor in 'esoteric' directions is the mistake.
In trying to make what - for them - is order out of what they imagine to be the disorder of Wisdom teachings, they have to over-simplify. They ignore parts of the teaching and succed only in creating an imitation of the Wisdom teachings of all ages.
Because so many people desire order so strongly, you will find more imitations than reality. One cannot blame anyone for this. But pointing out facts can help."
......
"Wisdom Masters who have reached stages where strange things happen in their vicinity, generally called miracles and wonders, due to actions OTHER than attempt to mpress, have to try to compensate for this. Otherwise people are attracted to them or to the Wisdom Teachers in general because of craving for wonders."
---
Al-Khidr
Al-Khidr's behaviour in this link is also strange, but it might be able to explain the strange behaviour Sai Baba has from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Al-Khidr
Allright?
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Antonio/Tony None
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
Hi Morten,
First let me say i never take sides. My opinions and thoughts are soley my own.
The last intention i have is to cause disharmony amongst this group so please do not take any of my thoughts or opinions personally , rather if you choose , reflect and form your own opinions.
To address the point you made.
It could be percieved that i have self contradicted, however my opinion regarding sai baba was formed without the knowledge you brought to my attention regarding BC's beliefs.
If this is what BC beleives than that is his choice. You and I may beleive in the same philosophy or religion but our perceptions may vary. My point is that perhaps BC's views and beleifs are all correct and perhaps some are and some arent, none of us are perfect and our beleifs in turn are prone to contradictions. if this is what BC truly beleives it begs the questions of why Sai Baba would resort to materialisations and others kinds of parapsychological activities. Not to say this is right or wrong , what is wrong is when you have missplaced intentions. My only conclusion from what i saw on youtube was Sai baba's intention was to fool his followers and his trick went wrong and he was exposed. Why he would wish to do this i dont know? Perhaps the pressure of appearing to have extraordinary capabilities may be one reason or perhaps his intent was to wow his followers in turn increasing his reputation as the cosmic avatar. These are only assumption and
at
the end of the day only Sai Baba knows his true intentions. My point was that a spiritually enlightened being would not even entertain the thought of conducting such an act. In my opinion a spiritually enlightened being would simply use words. Words are both weapons and healing tools and thus the true form of all magic. by these means and these means alone would a true avatar address humanity.
if you need me to elaborate further by all means let me know which points you would like me to address.
Peace and blessings
Antonio
--- On Thu, 21/5/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 5:40 PM
Dear Antonio and friends
My views are:
Maybe it is just me, but are your statement not self-contradicting.
I ask:
How can you say that Benjamin Creme is allright when he says that Sai Baba is a Cosmic Avatar and higher than his own claimed Maitreya Avatar, - and then go on to say that Sai Baba is false and fake? You simply lost me there?
- - -
It would be helpful if you would document your views instead of almost saying that "belief" is more valid than actual knowledge.
Why is it wrong when Sai Baba makes what he calls materialisations and others kinds of parapsychological activities?
I mean to some persons reading or driving a car is pure magic, to others it is quite natural and is done out compassion. So what is the actual difference?
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Antonio/Tony None
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
As a response to this i saw a youtuube video of Sai Baba doing stage magic terribally badly. If you like i would be happy to post this but it may distort your opinion of him. In my opinion any spiritually enlightened master would simply not engage in something of this nature. Regarding BC and Sai Baba following the exact same paths i would have to dissagree. The same way you can have two people working for the same organisation , they are still both individuals and their beleifs, intentions and choices and actions will always differ to ceartian degrees. I have seen enough of BC to know he is noble in nature and wants a positive conclusion to the chaos in this world. Wether this is an extreamly good act or not i do not know but until i see otherwise i will not assume.
Peace and Blessings
Antonio
--- On Thu, 21/5/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 8:29 AM
Dear Cass and friends
My views are:
And you are of course able to document the view that Sai Baba are a fraud?
I suggest you read the words by Al Khidr taken from the not to-be-read-dead- letter Quran before answering.
Al Khidr (The Green Guide. The Master of the Masters.)
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Al-Khidr
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Cass Silva
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
Sai Baba and Crene are both frauds - Crene may be delusional but Sai Baba knows how to exploit for gain
Cass
____________ _________ _________ __
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Thursday, 21 May, 2009 8:08:22 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
Dear friends
My views are:
On Share Internationals website we have the following:
"Maitreya and other well-known figures
This page sheds some light into the relationship between Maitreya and some well-known figures such as Sai Baba, the Buddha, Krishna and Krishnamurti. This information is excerpted from the books by Benjamin Creme."
"Maitreya & Sai Baba
Sri Sathy Sai BabaSai Baba is a teacher or guru in south India with an enormous following. Hundreds of thousands, perhaps one or two million people from all over the world would claim to be his devotees. These Followers see him as God, the creator of the universe. He is a cosmic avatar. Sai Baba and Maitreya both embody the same energy--what we call the Christ principle, the energy of Love --- Sai Baba at the cosmic level, Maitreya at the planetary level."
http://www.share- international. org/maitreya/ Ma_others. htm
So if one follows Cremes views, one might just the same or even better follow Sai Babas?
If so, why do we have to believe that there is more than one Avatar, when Sai Baba never mentions Cremes Maitreya Avatar?
So why indeed use the Great Invocation written by Alice A. Bailey so to accomplish her views given in the book named "The Externalization of the Hierarchy"?
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Antonio/Tony None
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
Dear Leon,
Thanks for your response.(Theos- World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?)
It would be very interesting from my perspective to know of these 4 musicians. Are there any links i could look into please?
I overstand your skepticsm and think it is valient. One should never accept any movement for total peace or total anarchy with blind faith but instead should evaluate the intricacies of that movement and make an intuitive decision as to wether or not its intentions are good or evil. In my case i am a total believer in love and peace and i am always considerate and compassionate when i see injustic in our world. My aim is simply to bring to light a philosophy or ideal which i feel will make the world a better place and yes we shall see how the labum impacts. I will post a link on this thread nearer the time of its release for all to listen to and digest and reflect and offer opinions on.
Regarding BC, I am also of the beleif that he may be working for the very people who want to impose a globalist agenda of control on the world. Perhaps if he has to accept the possibilty of a truely benevolent Maitreya through pressures from humanity his individual beliefs or plans would not come to fruition but those of Maitreya will. Lets hope this is the case or that BC is himself benevolent and wishes for love and peace in a chaotic world.
I am in agreement with you comment about christ consciousness and self realisation. I beleive that each of us have the ability to become gods. When i say gods i mean it in the purest eseence of love and peace. Mastered individuals that see and feel the interconectedness of all of humanity. My album is about raising this awareness in each of us. Wether or not Christ himself returns is a matter of speculation. That fact is totally out of my hands and in part irrelevent to my particular chosen path. All i can do is follow my beleifs and continue to better myself in order to serve humanity in the most productive and peacful way possible.
I have read up on the ancient mystery schools that came out of egypt and that are now administered in most secret societies and how these degrees circumnavigate the tree of life, ultimatly leading to enligtenment. Wether this is effective or not i do not know but i guess the only way to find out is to immerse yourself in that world and work your way to the top as the proof is in the pudding. Personally i choose to tread my own made path as i know my end goal is self realisation and enlightenment in its purest form of love and truth.
i have seen the video of the indian self proclaimed mesiah and his silly hand trick that didnt quite come off! how very silly. These fabricators and dupers will always eventually be exposed it is just a shame that a handfull of followers commit themselves to these types of individuals through blind faith without question. In the end crime never pays ;)
Peace and blessings
Antonio
--- On Wed, 20/5/09, Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@ aol. com> wrote:
From: Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@ aol. com>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Wednesday, 20 May, 2009, 5:04 AM
Hi Antonio,
Since everyone here could be reading our letters, and don't always
save read messages, it would be a good idea to quote whatever
posting you are responding to.
As I have said all I needed to about your ideas and plans in my last
correspondence, we'll just have to wait and see if your visions are
real and the future you predict will be realized in this century, if
not in our lifetimes.
I may be a bit jaded and skeptical -- since you are the fourth self
proclaimed music maven messiah I have encountered since the mid
1940s. I'm still waiting for any of the prophesies they made to come
true. One of them, a very successful musician (whom I met in the
60's and toked with in NY Central Park during the 70s) even got
eliminated by the dark side powers that be -- when he came too close
to initiating his revolution to bring peace and love to the world.
So, there's no way to know whether he was the real messiah (although
his music still lives on with his message -- that continues to
influence many people to think and act theosophically) .
In the meantime, we'll all look forward to your forthcoming album --
with the hope that it can really help change the world and bring it
closer to peace, love, and universal brotherhood.
To answer your question... I don't think there that any true
theosophist -- (many of whom are NOT active members of the splintered
Theosophical Society) -- could ever consider Creme a theosophist or
that the man who calls himself Maitreya, is the Messiah he claims to
be -- since the theosophical Masters themselves do not believe in a
personal God or his supposed avatars in the flesh. As the great
teacher Jesus said, "you shall know them by their fruits." So, the
fact that Creme believes in Maitreya makes it obvious that he may be
one of the tools of the "New World Order" conspiracy.
And, it also should be obvious that the Christ's (NOT Jesus) apparent
"return" has already occurred within every true theosophist who has
achieved self realization, merged his higher self with the Universal
Self, and has become a nucleus of universal brotherhood -- the prima
object of the theosophical movement.
Therefore, no one can claim he is the ONLY Christ-Messiah, in order
to rule and be worshipped and followed... Like the Pharaohs of
ancient Egypt... None of whom could perform any true miracles --
other than fooling ignorant people with the same, apparently magical,
knowledge used by both Jesus and Moses (and even HPB, who also knew
all the rules of "glamour" and "Mesmerism" -- like the "Fakirs" in
India).
No doubt the current Maitreya claimant uses those same "stage magic"
techniques to fool the superstitious Hindu mobs who attend his
meetings in India.
Good luck with your album.
Best wishes,
Leon
On May 18, 2009, at 5/18/095:11 PM, Antonio/Tony None wrote:
> Hi Leon,
>
> Thanks for your indepth feedback.
>
> I have taken on board your points of view and what seems to be a
> vast wealth of knowledge, well articulated in your reply.
>
> I can't help the beliefs that i have, they are a result of my life
> experiences. I beleive it is my calling to break down what the new
> world order is and what their true agenda is. I would have to agree
> that the new world order is a powerful ideal one that could
> potential destroy or heal the world in which we live.
>
> The fact remains that regardless of your beliefs, the powers that
> be will indeed see their plans come to fruition. The TS in my
> opinion has many faces. It is the culmination of opinions and
> ideals of each member that create the future for the TS.
>
> I have recently watched a few of Krishnamurti' s lectures and i saw
> him talking at the UN and being introduced as the World Teacher.
> Although i respect his views i still think he was far off the mark
> in terms of what i would percieve the real world teacher to be.
>
> Benjamin creme a self proclaimed theosphist believes in Maitreya
> and i am not quite sure what to make of that fact. Is this not a
> common beleief amongst members of the TS?
>
> There are many conflicting views and i can see why the TS is being
> torn and sides are being formed. My real aim is to break down the
> viel of secrecy and show people what is really going on. I honestly
> beleive that the false messiah will actually fool the very elite.
> those who beleive he will be used as another pupet to bring about
> their agenda. However i think this is where Maitreya will come into
> his element and expose the very people that think he is working for
> them. They say if you cant beat them join them. That is the only
> way to beat them, from within.
>
> If my album makes some waves and i am sure with the confession of
> who i am in my songs it will. Then i hope that the powers that be
> will wake up and realise that i am here to help them with their
> plans. Once inside the devils house i will use love to contaminate
> the evils and thus turn power inside out.
>
> The fact that Maitreya is not destined to arrive for sometime
> according to your calculations does not deter me in my efforts as
> time is not relevent to my end goal. The fact is this earth will
> long perish before the time of Maitryea's arrival based on buddhist
> calculations.
>
> My time to act is now. My life will be put on the line. What i am
> talking about in my music could lead me to public ridicule
> something i am willing to sacrafice for change.
>
> The bottom line is i know that Maitryea is a false prophet and i
> also know that without this false prophet Christ can not reapear.
> So in order to bring about Christs coming i am willing to be the
> antichrist or false messiah. I want to make that sacrafice. I feel
> that is my calling.
>
> So i will follow my beleifs to the end and see where my album takes
> me.
>
> That overshadowing experience is one i want back. That was the only
> time in my life that i felt complete, connected and truely at
> peace. That is what i am aiming for and i feel when my life's work
> is complete i can either totally let go of that part of my life or
> totally embrace it based on the reaction of my material.
>
> I have had amaizing visions of the future and one based on love and
> peace and ultimatly that is what i am fighting for in the best and
> most powerful way i know.
>
> So it is obvious we have two very different points of view and i
> respect yours and know that it is more of an educated enriched
> perspective of the matters which we speak of but i must follow what
> i beleive in with all my heart and hope to make positive change as
> a result.
>
> We shall see on the 22nd of July how east london reacts to my
> campaign. Hopefully it will cause a stir and kick start a
> revolution. But we will see.
>
> Peace and blessings
> Antonio.
>
>
> --- On Mon, 18/5/09, Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@ aol. com> wrote:
>
> From: Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@ aol. com>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of
> Truth"?
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Date: Monday, 18 May, 2009, 8:49 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Antonio,
>
>
>
> I don't want to burst your bubble, but that's the same kind of talk
>
> that the early founders of the Catholic Church used -- that ended up
>
> causing long periods of warfare and pogroms that caused deaths,
>
> injuries, broken families and destruction of homes of countless
>
> millions of people.
>
>
>
> No matter what the motives are of the "false prophet" (Matthew
>
> 7:15-20) calling himself "Maitreya" (actually destined to come at the
>
> end of Kali Yuga in about 400,000 years from now) -- who comes to
>
> supposedly take charge of the global "New World Order" government --
>
> it will be his sycophant inner circle of followers who will actually
>
> rule.
>
>
>
> And, as is well known to all students of history -- such absolute
>
> power, in the hands of unenlightened and greedy people, always
>
> corrupts absolutely. So, any government based on organized religion
>
> centered around a divine Messianic figurehead, and dependent on
>
> restrictive dictatorial laws to control the thoughts and actions of
>
> the people, is destined to fail.
>
>
>
> My hope (not fear) is that such a police state dictatorial government
>
> never sneaks up on us -- like was attempted recently by another sweet
>
> talking Jesus Christ loving, born again evangelical Christian -- who
>
> slyly stole an election, became the US President and lied us into a
>
> seemingly endless religious war -- with the help of his cabal of evil
>
> minded political cronies. So, count on me to be one of the many
>
> enemies of this false Messiah posing as Maitreya, and the New World
>
> Order shadow government that backs him -- whoever he is or they are.
>
>
>
> I'm afraid that any true theosophist who has already, or is studying
>
> and practicing to reach full self realization, knows that none of the
>
> works of man can ever solve the problems that man's works (guided by
>
> edicts and rules created and sanctioned by their leaders, and
>
> condoned by their personal greeds) has created. And no dictatorial
>
> government set up to solve those problems can flourish without such
>
> power, in the hands of the few, ending up just as corrupt as all
>
> revolutionary movements eventually become, when they take over
>
> dictatorial control of governing peoples lives.
>
>
>
> Of course, no real theosophist is for a fully self governed, "no
>
> rules" world... That is, untll ALL people are self realized and
>
> enlightened. But, until then, the only good government would be a
>
> true democratic government "of the people, by the people, and for the
>
> people"... With a leadership that can be kicked out when the people
>
> decide they are not serving the purpose they were elected for.
>
> Surely,, such a government will never be ideal... But it is certainly
>
> better than any dictatorship or monarchy over the long run.
>
>
>
> And, agreed, the global monetary system would have to be radically
>
> changed if such a true democracy could work effectively. But, we
>
> must never forget that each group of people with similar customs
>
> would have to remain free to practice them without interference -- so
>
> long as they harm no one. So, a homogenous global governed world by
>
> any dictatorial religious leader is not a realistic solution to the
>
> world problems.
>
>
>
> As it stands, the "New World Order" government you speak of, is the
>
> same old plan for world dictatorship and takeover of the global
>
> economy by the "Secret Society" of world bankers and brokers -- who
>
> are just waiting for another phony Messiah to, knowingly or
>
> unknowingly, act as their stooge in the role of world dictator --
>
> under their guidance and control.
>
>
>
> In no way can the ancient brotherhood of non interfering Masters and
>
> Adepts be confused with this New World Order cabal of greedy elitists
>
> and would be dictatorial monarchists.
>
>
>
> While I don't believe in your personal God or his supposed coming
>
> savior, I don't doubt your good intentions.. . Although, there is an
>
> old truism saying that "the road to hell is paved with good
>
> intentions." ;-)
>
>
>
> But, be assured that no true theosophist has to worry about
>
> "releasing the devil that is (supposedly) within them." ;-) The only
>
> one's who have such devils in them are those who would sacrifice
>
> individual liberty to a dictatorial government. So, maybe you should
>
> study the fundamental teachings of theosophy before you start
>
> preaching to those who truly understand and follow its Heart Doctrine.
>
>
>
> So, stick with your love-teaching music, and stop trying to convert
>
> into your religious beliefs, theosophists or any other spiritually
>
> minded independent thinkers who, while they, too, may respect your
>
> ideals, won't fall for smarmy, holier than thou talk -- when its
>
> underlying motives lead to any sort of mind-controlling,
>
> dictatorially religious governmental organization.
>
>
>
> Incidentally, after going back in my unread letter files and reading
>
> about your "overshadowing" as you call it -- I think you may have
>
> experienced unconscious mediumistic Astral epiphanies that could have
>
> been falsely interpreted as spiritual experiences. .. If so, I
>
> recommend that you study some of the articles written by Blavatsky
>
> about the Astral realm and the errors and dangers of such mediumship,
>
> as contrasted with true adeptship. According to the occult laws,
>
> there is no way for a living individual to contact an entity on the
>
> spiritual plane -- although there are entities on the astral plane
>
> (Buddhists call "hungry ghosts") that could mislead and be quite
>
> evilly dangerous to a non adept. You can find such articles at:
>
> http://www.blavatsk y.net/blavatsky/ blavatsky- articles. htmt
>
> Try this one for starters:
>
> http://www.blavatsk y.net/blavatsky/ arts/CaseOfObses sion.htm
>
>
>
> Apparently your jumping from one mystical teaching to another and
>
> your psychiatric breakdown experience are signs that should not be
>
> ignored before your next Astral experience, unsolicited visions, or
>
> uncontrolled kundalini awakening causes irrevocable damage... (That,
>
> incidentally, could be especially dangerous if you have ever or are
>
> now using psychoactive drugs.)
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Leon Maurer
>
>
>
> On May 13, 2009, at 5/13/097:28 AM, Antonio/Tony None wrote:
>
>
>
>> Hi Leon,
>
>>
>
>> I overstand your stance and your world views for a future based on
>
>> no rules. I feel this is commendable and eventually will become a
>
>> reality. Before this occurs the chaos in the world needs to be
>
>> addressed. I feel that the worlds choas needs to be drawn to one
>
>> central point and at that moment when the world awakens to the true
>
>> realisation will that point be destroyed and thus allow humanity to
>
>> move forward void of negative emotion. Fear surrounding the new
>
>> world orders plan is natural but the fact remains the freternal
>
>> brotherhood do exist and they do have an agenda to centralise all
>
>> power to one operating body. This is a very worrying and yet
>
>> exciting propesition. As head of this order, Maitreya will change
>
>> both internally and externally the processes by which we as humans
>
>> operate. From re-education, to the eradication of weapons. To
>
>> sharing with one another as a spiritual rush and taking the
>
>> monetary system totally out of the equation. The fact that
>
>> Maitrey may come to us via music is not something that should be
>
>> dismissed. God's biggest gift to Lucifer was music. My album will
>
>> be different and will totally challange spiritual concepts in our
>
>> reality but that will also be down to peoples interpretation.
>
>> People like yourself unwilling to accept such a movement as being
>
>> anything other than genuine and devinly inspired. You are the
>
>> people i need to reach most, the lost ones in the dark, searching
>
>> for the light, hoping for one day to realese the devil from within
>
>> you. Armegeddon is as much an inward battle as a world
>
>> transformation. It is ultimatly about vanquishing the evils from
>
>> within and emerging evolved into a connected higher state of
>
>> consciousness. If you fail to take this change on board your evils
>
>> will overwhelm and overcome you and evetually destroy you. So i
>
>> hope and pray that when you receive my words and my music that you
>
>> look on it with an open heart and you see the true intentions. The
>
>> intent to change a dying world through that one binding universal
>
>> truth. Love.
>
>>
>
>> Peace and blessings
>
>> Antonio
>
>>
>
>> --- On Wed, 13/5/09, Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@ aol. com> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> From: Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@ aol. com>
>
>> Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of
>
>> Truth"?
>
>> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>> Date: Wednesday, 13 May, 2009, 12:36 AM
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Since the Masters knew what problems resulted from the
>
>> revealing of
>
>>
>
>> their names by their first messenger (HPB) -- do you think they (or
>
>>
>
>> their successors) would make the same mistake again when the new
>
>>
>
>> messenger begins the new mission?
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> And, by all the rules set down by the Masters (and promulgated
>
>>
>
>> through HPB) -- wouldn't the actual work on that mission have to
>
>>
>
>> begin in I975 by someone already mature in the practical ways of the
>
>>
>
>> modern world, fully educated and experienced in ALL the fine and
>
>>
>
>> applied arts of current science, engineering and all levels of high
>
>>
>
>> technology communication -- while also being fully indoctrinated with
>
>>
>
>> the theosophical teachings -- to at least the beginning of adeptship
>
>>
>
>> -- as was HPB when she began her mission in 1875?
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> And, wouldn't all the occult powers -- that also attracted hordes of
>
>>
>
>> superficial sycophants and resulted in many fraudulent copycats
>
>>
>
>> during and after HPB's time -- be intentionally withheld from their
>
>>
>
>> new agent (such as the power of foresight and other siddhis was
>
>>
>
>> withheld from HPB)?
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Obviously, of course, none of the present Masters would ever reveal
>
>>
>
>> themselves, personally, or allow their messenger to expose their
>
>>
>
>> names this time around. There would also no longer be a need to
>
>>
>
>> attract members to the teachings through an organization, or to a
>
>>
>
>> notorious personality. .. Since all that now matters would be to
>
>>
>
>> prove the theosophical teachings beyond a shadow of a doubt, free
>
>>
>
>> each human to be their own judge and master, as well as discredit all
>
>>
>
>> forms of organized religion based on supernatural causation, personal
>
>>
>
>> Gods, vicarious atonement and living messiahs.
>
>>
>
>> .
>
>>
>
>> Think about all that, and try to imagine anyone in the Theosophical
>
>>
>
>> Society, or appointed by its leaders, being in a position to fill
>
>>
>
>> that role... Especially, anyone who is not fully indoctrinated into
>
>>
>
>> the entire secret doctrine -- as thoroughly taught by HPB in ALL her
>
>>
>
>> writings.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Didn't William Q. Judge say that there were only three books
>
>>
>
>> necessary to fully comprehend theosophy -- which were, the Secret
>
>>
>
>> Doctrine, the Bhagavad Gita, and the Yoga Aphorisms of Patanjali?
>
>>
>
>> (Is it any wonder, then, why he transliterated all three -- along
>
>>
>
>> with their detailed commentaries and answers to questions?)
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Isn't it, then, also obvious why the real identity of the messenger
>
>>
>
>> could not be revealed until the actual scientific "proof" of the
>
>>
>
>> Secret Doctrine metaphysics actually shows up in the scientific
>
>>
>
>> journals and the mass media, and becomes worldwide public knowledge?
>
>>
>
>> And, even then, the true messenger will not be known, since the
>
>>
>
>> accredited, peer reviewable physicists who win the prize for such a
>
>>
>
>> proof will never acknowledge who or what inspired them -- (as
>
>>
>
>> Einstein never would think of giving credit to HPB for his
>
>>
>
>> theories.;-) See:
>
>>
>
>> http://leonmaurer. info/einstein. html
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Only, then, will all true theosophists recognize the new teachings
>
>>
>
>> (with no need to make the retired messenger their leader) and rally
>
>>
>
>> together as true "companions" to form the nucleus of the "universal
>
>>
>
>> brotherhood" ... That, by their example, teaches the rest of the
>> world
>
>>
>
>> the true meaning and practice of the Heart Doctrine of theosophy as
>
>>
>
>> the basis of *true* democratic government.. . With no need of a
>
>>
>
>> messiah and his hierarchical leadership, New World Order police state
>
>>
>
>> governments, personal gods, priests, or religious organizations.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Thus, anyone who claims to be the new messenger, world teacher,
>
>>
>
>> messiah, returned Christ, Maitreya, etc., before (or after) that
>
>>
>
>> time, would necessarily be an impostor (or false prophet). And, the
>
>>
>
>> biggest joke of all is the delusional idea that the "new message"
>
>>
>
>> will be in the form of a musical album, sung by the messiah
>
>> himself ;-)
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> So, let's stop this endless speculative nonsense, and knuckle down to
>
>>
>
>> learning and teaching pure theosophy -- so we'll all be ready when
>
>>
>
>> that "new message" shows up... And, afterward, have no need for
>
>>
>
>> organizations or leaders to tell us how to act (as one) in whatever
>
>>
>
>> way is necessary to turn this world back into the paradise it was
>
>>
>
>> meant to be.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Best wishes,
>
>>
>
>> Leon Maurer
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> On May 11, 2009, at 5/11/099:55 PM, Cass Silva wrote:
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>> Does this mean that the person was born in 1975 - which would now
>
>>
>
>>> make him 35 years old or that in 1975 his mission began?
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> Cass
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> ____________ _________ _________ __
>
>>
>
>>> From: danielhcaldwell <danielhcaldwell@ yahoo.com>
>
>>
>
>>> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>>
>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 3:25:00 AM
>
>>
>
>>> Subject: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of
>
>>> Truth"?
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> Alice Bailey claimed that "her teachings came from the same Occult
>
>>
>
>>> Brotherhood that taught HP Blavatsky . . . . Bailey's guide
>
>>
>
>>> professed to be the same Djual Khool that was one of HPB's
>
>>
>
>>> teachers. Bailey also declared that her guru was the same Master
>
>>
>
>>> Koot Hoomi that Blavatsky knew."
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> Many Bailey students have quoted the following passage from
>
>>
>
>>> H.P.B.'s pen in supporting the claim that Alice Bailey was the
>
>>
>
>>> expected new messenger of the Masters in the 20th century:
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> "In Century the Twentieth some disciple more informed, and far
>
>>
>
>>> better fitted, may be sent by the Masters of Wisdom to give final
>
>>
>
>>> and irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science called Gupta-
>
>>
>
>>> Vidya; and that . . . the source of all religions and
>
>>
>
>>> philosophies . . . has been for many ages forgotten and lost to
>
>>
>
>>> men, but is at last found." S.D., 1888, Vol I, p. xxxviii (original
>
>>
>
>>> edition)
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> But Students should compare this 1888 statement with the following
>
>>
>
>>> two passages from HPB's pen. The first extract was written in
>
>>
>
>>> December 1888 and the second one dates from the middle of 1889.
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> The first passage reads:
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> "Let every member [of the Esoteric Section] know . . . that the
>
>>
>
>>> time for such priceless acquisition is limited. The writer of the
>
>>
>
>>> present is old; her life is well-nigh worn out, and she may be
>
>>
>
>>> summoned 'home' any day and almost any hour. And if her place is
>
>>
>
>>> even filled up, perchance by another worthier and more learned than
>
>>
>
>>> herself, still there remain but twelve years to the last hour of
>
>>
>
>>> the term - namely, till December the 31st, 1899. Those who will not
>
>>
>
>>> have profited by the opportunity (given to the world in every last
>
>>
>
>>> quarter of a century), those who will not have reached a certain
>
>>
>
>>> point of psychic and spiritual development, or that point from
>
>>
>
>>> which begins the cycle of adeptship, by that day - those will
>
>>
>
>>> advance no further than the knowledge already acquired. No Master
>
>>
>
>>> of Wisdom from the East will appear or send any one to Europe or
>
>>
>
>>> America after that period, and the sluggards will have to renounce
>
>>
>
>>> every chance
>
>>
>
>>> of advancement in their present incarnation - until the year 1975.
>
>>
>
>>> Such is the LAW, for we are in Kali Yuga - the Black Age - and the
>
>>
>
>>> restrictions in this cycle, the first 5,000 years of which will
>
>>
>
>>> expire in 1897, are great and almost insuperable. " HPB's Collected
>
>>
>
>>> Writings, Vol XII, pp. 491-492. Italics added.
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> The second passage is as follows:
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> ". . .during the last quarter of every hundred years an attempt is
>
>>
>
>>> made by those 'Masters' . . . to help on the spiritual progress of
>
>>
>
>>> Humanity in a marked and definite way. Towards the close of each
>
>>
>
>>> century you will invariably find that an outpouring or upheaval of
>
>>
>
>>> spirituality - or call it mysticism if you prefer - has taken
>
>>
>
>>> place. Some one or more persons have appeared in the world as their
>
>>
>
>>> agents, and a greater or less amount of occult knowledge and
>
>>
>
>>> teaching has been given out . . . . .If the present attempt, in the
>
>>
>
>>> form of our Society, succeeds better than its predecessors have
>
>>
>
>>> done, then it will be in existence as an organized, living and
>
>>
>
>>> healthy body when the time comes for the effort of the XXth
>
>>
>
>>> century. The general condition of men's minds and hearts will have
>
>>
>
>>> been improved and purified by the spread of its teachings . . . .
>
>>
>
>>> but besides a large
>
>>
>
>>> and accessible literature ready to men's hands, the next impulse
>
>>
>
>>> will find a numerous and united body of people ready to welcome the
>
>>
>
>>> new torch-bearer of Truth. He will find the minds of men prepared
>
>>
>
>>> for his message, a language ready for him in which to clothe the
>
>>
>
>>> new truths he brings, an organization awaiting his arrival . . . ."
>
>>
>
>>> The Key to Theosophy, pp. 306-7. Italics added.
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> The three passages taken together indicate that HPB was referring
>
>>
>
>>> to an emissary of the Masters coming in 1975 or later. These
>
>>
>
>>> statements by HPB would seem to rule out the messenger being Alice
>
>>
>
>>> Bailey or many other claimants. For a list of such claimants, see:
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> http://blavatskyarc hives.com/ latermessengers. htm#six
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>> Daniel
>
>>
>
>>> http://hpb.cc
>
>>
>
>>>
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>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
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>>>
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>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>>>
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>>>
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Dedicated to the Theosophical Philosophy and its Practical Application
