Theos-Talk Archives (May 2009 Message tt00453)

Dear Adelasie

Thank you for your kind "welcome back" and once again for 
your usual elaborate and eloquent response.

I can only agree with all you write, particularly where you
highlight the discrepancies between the "?absolute reality
and the transitory manifestation."

Herein lie the dilemmas for every occultist, as you say.
And it is often these very dilemmas that bring us the sharpest 
experiences and deepest insights into the nature of mind and 
the cosmos.

With your permission, I prefer not to comment further, as your words 
have a profoundly insightful and poetic flow that I feel would be diminished by my excessive personal comments.

Very kind regards
Nigel    


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, adelasie <adelasie@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Nigel,
> 
> Welcome back! A few comments follow.
> 
> You write, "What is the Light? In the context of this discussion,
> >
> > the Light represents the eternal verities, the foundation stones
> > of the Temple of Truth, that which each human being recognizes
> > in his inner most being to be true and right and beautiful."
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> The occultist is always faced with the dilemma of trying to live in an 
> imperfect world while recognizing the existence of perfection in terms 
> of ideals. It is quite painful sometimes to realize the extent to which 
> the ideal is diluted and even perverted. as it makes its tortuous way 
> through the planes of consciousness to our material world. The student 
> learns gradually to accept what is a necessary and even valuable part of 
> the process, and to keep balance between the ideal and the reality, 
> while never losing sight of the goal of perfection.
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> > Yes, and what is beauty? If we associate it, as we have in previous
> > discussions, with that which is "right", rather than superficial
> > appearance, perhaps we then need to determine what we mean by right?
> >
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> Again, there is the apparent discrepancy between the absolute reality 
> and the transitory manifestation. The occult student learns gradually 
> that the version of "reality" that seems pervasive is nothing but an 
> illusion, a reflection of the eternal Reality, but a necessary one. It 
> is through this illusion that humanity evolves the consciousness of the 
> totality. It is a bit like a hypothetical condition, created by Karma as 
> it balances the actions of humans with the requirements of the Law of 
> Nature. There is always duality. What is Right in the absolute sense is 
> the goal. What is right in the immediate sense is that which is dictated 
> by the heart, in inner small voice, of the student. This material 
> "right" is subject to point of view. Each student learns to make 
> decisions based on his best intentions and understanding, realizing that 
> if he chooses wrongly, he will pay a price to Karma, but realizing also 
> that he always has guidance from within, if he will only ask for it.
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> > If we address the issue of "right" you write, "In our daily lives we are
> > presented with choice after choice. Shall I tell a lie? Shall I steal?
> > Shall I betray? Shall I judge?
> >
> > Once again, and with respect, these words may need to be
> > clarified. As they stand prima facie, they are open to different
> > interpretation, dependent on circumstance and context.
> >
> > For example; "Shall I lie?" Yes indeed, if the truth will
> > cause pain and suffering that is not necessary as in the case of
> > a "white" lie. I am sure you understand this so will take it no
> > further in this instance.
> > Morever, would I lie to protect the life of an innocent other?
> > And would this then be "lying?"
> >
> > "Shall I steal?" Yes indeed, if your family is starving and the
> > circumstances are such that you have no other option.
> > But is this then "stealing" or the duty to survive and provide?
> >
> > "Shall I betray?" Sometimes, in certain circumstances
> > this may be necessary. For example, a young person may
> > confide in me that they are going to self-harm, perhaps
> > even suicide. It would be entirely appropriate for me to betray
> > their trust and notify parents and/or authorities.
> > Some parents are faced with this ethical dilemma when
> > considering reading their child's confidential journal, where
> > the child is displaying worrying behaviour.
> >
> > "Shall I judge?" This is perhaps a little less problematic,
> > as by judge I presume you mean to condemn another.
> > To judge for the purposes of discernment however is of course
> > necessary in countless situations.
> >
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> There are no absolute answers in a transitory reality. The rule of our 
> lives is change. We can only try to choose the best possible course of 
> action according to our best information and intent and be content that 
> as long as we are trying we are making progress. As you point out, 
> interpretation is everything. It's so interesting how often we think, 
> "How could he do that? I would never do such a thing." And yet, the 
> person we observe might very well wonder the same about us. It's useful 
> sometimes to apply a bit of imagination to such a consideration. If I 
> were in his shoes, how would I behave? Often we don't really know enough 
> about another's reality to make a reasonable determination, but that 
> doesn't necessarily mean he is behaving wrongly in his own context.
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> > I am sure you will have considered all of the above, and I don't
> > wish to appear pedantic, but it does highlight the fact that we need
> > to be careful when overtly generalising certain words.
> > Perhaps they must be used only in the context of each situation.
> >
> > You write, "Over and over we have a choice and if we choose
> > according to the priciples of Truth, Honesty, Loyalty, Compassion,
> > we are staying within the Light."
> >
> > Without repeating the previous exercise, it is interesting to
> > examine these words in various settings.
> > I would add to your list the word harmony, albeit in a certain context.
> > Taking your words as you and I might otherwise have a reasonably
> > common understanding, harmony would seem to be the result of
> > these qualities?
> >
> > However, what is harmony? And here we are getting closer to
> > some of our earlier discussions.
> >
> > >From my perspective, capital H Harmony is that which is concerned
> > with Principles of the Whole, rather than necessarily any particular
> > individual situation or circumstance. Peoples' emotional reactions
> > must also come second in most situations requiring discernment,
> > as most feelings are caught up in self interest.
> > For instance, there were a number of occasions in my local
> > Theosophical branch where a few people were deliberately lying
> > about a number of very serious matters. I and another chose to
> > challenge and expose these behaviours and were generally
> > condemned for disrupting the "harmony" of the branch. The matters
> > were largely ignored leaving considerable injustices in their wake.
> > >From my perspective, the primary principles of concern were truth
> > and justice, particularly for those aggrieved, and not for the
> > emotional difficulties which may have, and did, arise.
> > Genuine Harmony does not always equate to emotional comfort,
> > in fact the desire for that can be our biggest trap.
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> The situation you outline is a difficult one indeed. We humans are as we 
> have said imperfect and studying occultism sometimes has the effect of 
> accenting our imperfections. In general tolerance of each other's 
> imperfections is recommended. However, if we sincerely feel that the 
> actions of a few in our group are damaging the whole, we might decide to 
> take some action. Hopefully the organizations has accepted procedure for 
> such situations. If not, the blame will often fall on those who protest 
> what they perceive as wrong doing. Humans are quick to take sides and 
> often choose according to their own personal benefit. Our best attitude, 
> when involved in such situations, is to do our best to act as we 
> sincerely feel is necessary, and then to let go of attachment to the 
> results of our actions. Whatever happens, we learn valuable lessons 
> about ourselves and about human nature in general. Our bonds are 
> stronger than that which separates us. We do best if we concentrate our 
> attention on what is good about what we do, what others do, and let the 
> rest go.
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> You write, "Our choice to walk within the Light or within the shadow
> >
> > is simply whether to choose according to our own inner knowledge
> > of right and wrong, or to ignore it. The consequence of the former
> > will benefit the whole human race, the whole universe. The
> > consequences of the latter bring destruction pain and suffering to
> > all. Which should we choose?"
> > Once again, prima facie this statement appears entirely reasonable.
> > However, as alluded above, that which we assume to be "right"
> > may only be a matter of perspective, dependent on the particular
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> This seems to be a reasonable assumption, according to the best we have 
> available in the present cycle. At least, those of us who study the 
> ancient wisdom and accept the guidance of the Masters of Compassion have 
> a chance to choose a bit more wisely than, for instance, someone who 
> thinks that there is nothing to existence but the here and now and 
> therefor believes that the end justifies the means. We live in a very 
> intellectual and materialistic cycle. Making life choices based on some 
> eternal concept of perfect good is not particularly popular, since it 
> seldom produces material wealth and power, but it might just be the 
> straw that breaks the back of the camel (not to disparage that noble 
> beast) of selfishness, greed and corruption that seems to dominate our 
> culture.
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> All the best,
> Adelasie
>