Theos-Talk Archives (May 2009 Message tt00384)

Ok, Morten, four simple answers to your questions:  

1) Q: If we assume that J. Krishnamurti was overshadowed for a given period of time
somewhere between 1909-1929, what are the fruits we can learn from that overshadowing?

K wrote many inspiring pieces of devotional prose, mystical poetry, descriptions of occult experiences, and many simple, beautiful teachings on wisdom and life. His "At the Feet of the Masters" is a classic. His talks and writings between 1925 and 1927 are especially profound and you just have to read them, regardless of your evaluation of his metaphysical status, merely in the spirit of the second TS object. The complete early works are still to be published, so there is still much missing. 

2) Q: What did he - actually - say or teach the number of times he was overshadowed?

It will take some research to collect the speeches he gave in the 'overshadowed' period and submit them to a structural analysis. Safest to say is that his little booklet "The Kingdom of Happiness" is from that period and at least expresses the main themes he was working on.

http://norea.net/krishnamurti/kingdom.htm

3) Q: Was it a complete failure, and .... 

That all depends and your metaphysical criteria. I think the WT project failed, but at the same time some great teachings were given. Even his later mature philosophy has much that is quite amazing, but you have to be well rooted in Theosophy to get a handle on it and not get deceived by his shaky logic, charisma and anti-esoteric jabs. 

4) Q: ...  was the real teaching forwarded by J. Krishnamurti much later?
Later than 1934, the year he said he did not know about HPB's teachings?

Some think so, especially some in the Krishnamurti camp who think that only by approximately that year he had divested himself of all the Theosophical jargon and issues and was free to develop a  existential, non-esoteric teaching of liberation. Some Theosophists will give him lee-way by saying that K was a mystic and not an occultist, therefore he should or could be excused from knowing no HPB. Others would stress that K was very aware of the whole meta-empirical realm of masteres, devas and healing energies, but just did not think it important to expound upon. His focus was on the psycho-spiritual quality of your life and not on the depth of your understanding of esoteric-occult teachings. 

Hope this helps

Govert

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Morten Nymann Olesen 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 11:28 AM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World J Krishnamurti Videos on Youtube





  Allright

  Four simple questions on J. Krishnamurti:
  If we assume that J. Krishnamurti was overshadowed for a given period of time
  somewhere between 1909-1929, what are the fruits we can learn from that overshadowing?
  What did he - actually - say or teach the number of times he was overshadowed?

  Was it a complete failure, and was the real teaching forwarded by J. Krishnamurti much later?
  Later than 1934, the year he said he did not know about HPB's teachings?

  ---

  J. Krishnamurti lack of knowledge about H. P. Blavatsky and theosophy given by the Masters.
  http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-text.php?tid=75&chid=4435&w=Blavatsky

  M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Govert Schuller 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 4:00 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World J Krishnamurti Videos on Youtube

  Dear Morten,

  If you phrase your questions in a more succinct way I might give it a try to answer them, not on behalf of Adyar TS, but as far as I understand the issues you think are out there still standing. 

  Govert

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Morten Nymann Olesen 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 12:33 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World J Krishnamurti Videos on Youtube

  Dear Anand

  My views are:

  Allright, there you are, - J. Krishnamurti said:

  1.
  G. Hodson said:
  "These phenomena occurred during some few successive years, the events being so
  marked that Krishnamurti himself thereafter changed the Objects of the Order of the
  Star in the East from, in effect, "To prepare for the coming of the Lord" to "To serve
  the World Teacher now that He is in our midst." I, myself, more than once heard
  Krishnamurti affirm that the great Teacher was now here and that the "Coming" had
  actually occurred."
  http://www.alpheus.org/html/articles/theosophy/oncwl2.html

  Can we have BOTH facimile versions of "the Order of the Star in the East" shown online?
  Someone at Adyar or London has one - if I should rely on my clairvoyance.

  2.
  "I know that which I am; I know my purpose in life because I am Life itself without name, without limitation. And because I am Life I would urge you to worship that Life, not in this form that is Krishnamurti but the Life which dwells in each one of you. Put aside all the paraphernalia of beliefs, religions and ceremonies, and you will find the Truth."
  http://jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1928-let-understanding-be-the-law/jiddu-krishnamurti-let-understanding-be-the-law-07.php

  3.
  "Krishnamurti wrote in 1927:
  "I know my destiny and my work. I know with certainty and knowledge of my own, that I am blending into the consciousness of the one Teacher and that He will completely fill me." 
  Letter from Krishnamurti to Leadbeater February 9, 1927, quoted in Lutyens, Krishnamurti: The Years of Awakening, p. 241.

  _______________ Extra info written before here at Theos-talk _____________

  J. Krishnamurti are not allowing anyone to be guided by a Guru or a spiritual guide.
  The consecuence of such a teaching are pictured very well by H. P. Blavatsky in the below quote. J. Krishnamurtis teachings are therefore problematic to use, when the reject this idea given by H. P. Blavatsky.

  When TS Adyar will come forward and explain how they relate to this and how J. Krishnamurtis teachings can be said to wise in this respect, we might listen. - Else we will consdier TS Adyar as a strange, if not even a dangerous activity.

  H. P. Blavatsky wrote in The Key to Theosophy, p. 25:
  "ENQUIRER. But why could not a man of well-balanced mind and singleness of purpose, one, say, of indomitable energy and perseverance, become an Occultist and even an Adept if he works alone? 

  THEOSOPHIST. He may; but there are ten thousand chances against one that he will fail. For one reason out of many others, no books on Occultism or Theurgy exist in our day which give out the secrets of alchemy or mediaeval Theosophy in plain language. All are symbolical or in parables; and as the key to these has been lost for ages in the West, how can a man learn the correct meaning of what he is reading and studying? Therein lies the greatest danger, one that leads to unconscious black magic or the most helpless mediumship. He who has not an Initiate for a master had better leave the dangerous study alone. Look around you and observe. While two-thirds of civilized society ridicule the mere notion that there is anything in Theosophy, Occultism, Spiritualism, or in the Kabala, the other third is composed of the most heterogeneous and opposite"
  http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/aKEY.htm

  And we have Theosophist Magazine September 1932-December 1932

  "I presume the T.S. accepts it as its duty to promulgate Theosophy and not to spread or air of other philosophies; if the former why does it undertake propaganda for the teachings of Krishnamurti? If the latter, why call itself the Theosophical Society? This is sailing under false colours and is dishonest to humanity. The facts are, that one cannot go to any T.S. Lodge meeting without hearing about, seeing the books of Krishnamurti. What service is that to mankind- what service is rendered to Theosophy? It can only do one thing and that is to help fog and cloud the student and help to make his efforts to learn Theosophy a hundred times more difficult. Kirshnamurti himself is absolutely honest.... 

  In the Star Bulletin August 1931, Page 7 - J. Krishnamurti says:

  " So I have made it prefectly clear that what is generally believed by the Christian, the Theosophist, the Hindu, the Buddhist to be Truth, has nothing in common with what I say"
  http://books.google.com/books?id=Tq8aS-ZDu_IC&pg=RA2-PA379&lpg=RA2-PA379&dq=%22Star+Bulletin%22+1931+Krishnamurti&source=web&ots=StjngNWK0k&sig=yBGu2frkW1eUSqpsDYFDftGSKe4#PRA2-PA379,M1

  And not to talk about the requirements of people being members of the Order of the Star in the East
  if they wanted TS membership. No wonder a number of Seekers broke with the TS back in the old days.

  - - -

  The leadership in TS Adyar have for years remianed silent about these issues.
  No real effort to show that truth about the acivtities and explaining the confusion
  a great number of people felt and feel today have been dealt with in an compassionate manner.
  And we all wonder why?

  __________

  I have asked more than one TS Adyar member on the above.
  The answer is silence. And silence speaks!

  M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anand 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:00 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World J Krishnamurti Videos on Youtube

  Prof. Catherine Wessinger says
  "He (J.Krishnamurti) told a friend I don't give a damn about World Teacher and he wondered why they had picked him."
  and
  "He made it clear that he was not the world teacher, not the messiah"
  It appears that Theosophists are wrongly calling J. Krishnamurti World Teacher, when Krishnamurti himself made it clear that he was not the World Teacher.

  Anand Gholap

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]