Theos-Talk Archives (April 2009 Message tt00208)

The current problems are not the critic made to Pedro, that just showed us how conservative and secretive they are. The major point is are they willing to stop? Are they willing to recognize Linda as VP? Of course improvements can and should be done in the by-laws, no one is against it, not even the International President as she stated during the GC  meeting. But what kind of improvements? This is a topic that must be careful discussed and studied, and the participation of interested members should not be denied. 

The General Secretary of the Greek Section, sent to his proxy a letter instructing him to express the opinion of the Greek Section, regarding the changes of the By-laws. He said that any major change should have the approval of at least 70 percent of the members worldwide, and that  leaders should incentive members to participate more active in such procedures.

All this tendency to secrets and to avoid that members participate in so relevant matters is very harmful to the T.S.  Having a chair or the responsibility to hold a position in the GC do not make anyone more important than any T.S. member. If a person holds such position is just to represent the members, and that is all. There is not T.S. without members, the T.S. depends entirely on its members, and they should be treated with the respect and consideration they deserve. 

Doss, as for GC members to enter forums like this and participate in an open discussion, this is something that may happen in the future and not now. Many GCs  members do not know how to use the PC, others do not speak very well English and would depend on someone else to translate everything. The few who are engaged on online activies are those we already know.

Keith made a great step to enter this forum and indirectly call for a debate Warwick Key. We did not see anything of the kind happening, as the latter replied with silence. Anton Rozman opened a very interesting dialogue with Keith which resulted in a series of e-mails clarifying many points. 

Now regarding the frustration some members are feeling about the way their GC are acting, stop complaining and act. Create local groups, try to find possible new candidates and work to change the direction of the T.S. in your own country. I know in some countries that is a quite difficult thing to do, as members have no right to vote directly for GC. So in these countries things are much more complicated, and in my opinion members there should try to restaure their voting rights. 

Erica 




________________________________
From: MKR <mkr777@gmail.com>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 5:24:47 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Vice-president





I am glad you brought out the two points very well.

One of the times when there were two candidates for the office of the
President, was when Ernest Wood ran against George Arundale. The day Ernest
Wood was nominated to run for President, he resigned his position as
International Secretary. I should remind readers that he gave prime of his
life full-time to TS and held himself to very high standards as every
theosophist is expected to. I think he did the right thing and it simply
showed what he was.

It is rather ironic that BB should complain about Pedro regarding the ultra
secret attempted coup to seize control of the presidency soon after her
candidate was defeated. We all should applaud the courage of Pedro. I do not
know where TS would be today if the coup has succeeded.

What is even more shocking is that none of the GC members came to support
Pedro and question why  everyone in the GC have kept silent when this secret
attempt was in progress. Does this show the mentality of the elected
officials that they do not care for the members, but only their self-serving
hunger for power.

I live in the USA, and if anyone here suggests that all the citizens should
give up their voting rights to elect the president, there would be a nation
wide riot.

MKR

There is no religion higher than truth

On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Erica L. Georgiades
<eletzerich@yahoo. com>wrote:

>
>
> Dear friends,
>
> Katinka touched mentioned two relevant points on her e-mail:
>
> 1 - the issue of the Vice-president.
> 2 - the issue of Pedro Oliveira.
>
> 1 - On the first issue (as I've mentioned in an old post of mine), when Dr.
> Algeo was a candidate to the International Presidency, he could not at the
> same time be the VP of the candidate he was running against. This is insane.
> I think his resignation -to the position of VP - was clear when he was
> running for the Presidency of the T.S.. After Dr. Algeo lost the elections,
> the group who was supporting him wanted him to remain as VP, and a series of
> other conflicts took place. The result is that until now some Sections have
> in their magazines the Vice-President Dr. Algeo. This is so awkward.
>
> 2 - BB complain about Pedro Oliveira just shows how closed minded they are.
> They wanted to bring about changes, without the knowledge of the members and
> without an active participation of the members. This is absurd. If they
> wanted to avoid what happened, they should have consulted the members of
> their Section before presenting such proposal to the GC. And yes what Pedro
> did was to protect the interest of the members.
>
> Its obvious that if the American Section and some other Sections involved
> in these matters do not try to change their attitude, the only result will
> be more divisions and more conflicts. They should recognize Linda Oliveira
> as VP, and change their attitude, for the sake of harmony and union in the
> T.S.. For if things go on like this, I am afraid that a split will be almost
> inevitable.
>
> Erica L. Georgiades
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Katinka Hesselink <mail@katinkahesseli nk.net<mail%40katinkahess elink.net>
> >
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:47:08 PM
> Subject: Theos-World Open letter to the General Council, including Radha
> Burnier
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've read the material on the http://www.theosoph yforward. com/ Theosophy
> Forward blog. It seems clear to me that mistakes have been made on all
> sides.
>
> Radha Burnier had apparently decided she could no longer work with John
> Algeo and instead of privately asking him to step down, or nominating
> another VP to be elected at the General Council (GC) meeting, she wanted the
> vote beforehand: by paper slip. This was an irregular way of doing things.
> It would have been nice if she'd learned the main lesson out of this whole
> mess before hand: that communication is key in the new millennium.
>
> Given that Radha was just elected with a large majority, I think John Algeo
> should have stepped down from the VP position the moment it became clear
> that he and Radha could no longer work together. This would have prevented
> the whole mess Radha got into. She needed to do something to get back to a
> workable situation.
>
> In the interest of the future of the TS I would like to ask everybody to
> not make a big deal of the way the new VP was elected. While the election
> was apparently not regular, it was done - to fight it would be to involve
> the TS Adyar in recriminations that would break it up. I don't think the
> price is worth paying. No object can be served by making a further mess of
> things.
>
> Rules are less important than people.
>
> On the 'other side' of this issue we have Betty Bland taking issue with
> Pedro Oliveira for sending the proposal we've heard so much about to members
> worldwide. She has a point: it was an agenda point for the general council.
> But given that the members clearly wanted to know this point - and that she
> had supported it without even consulting her own board members - bringing
> the issue up was not the wisest thing she could have done. Pedro Oliveira
> was acting on what he sensed the members wanted - and rightly so. The TS is
> there for the members, not for the General Council. The members have a moral
> right to know when their rights are going to be contested, whatever the rule
> book may say on the subject.
>
> Again - rules and procedures are less important than conscientiously
> serving the members and the Theosophical cause.
>
> The members of the General Council have, as far as I can tell, two possible
> roads ahead:
>
> 1) To mend fences and focus on making the TS a movement fit for the 21st
> century
> 2) To carp at every little thing (just found that expression in the
> dictionary and hope it's not too old fashioned).
>
> I really hope you will do the first.
>
> One other thing. I'm all for communication and the right kind of 'change',
> but having observed the mess we've gotten into the last year - I'd rather
> have Radha Burnier, overly conservative as she is, than John Algeo and Betty
> Bland stirring up the wrong things. And to our ULT and Pasadena friends: I
> also prefer this kind of public bickering to not discussing issues at all.
> At least members get a say in the TS Adyar.
>
> Katinka Hesselink
> [I'm only sending this to theos-talk - if people want others to read it who
> don't keep up with this forum, send it to them]
>
> http://www.allconsi dering.com/
> http://www.katinkah esselink. net/
> http://www.overpein zende.nl/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 
>

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