Theos-Talk Archives (April 2009 Message tt00179)

Dear friends

My views are:

Daniel asked:
"Are there written documents prior to HPB's writings in which someone else claimed to be in contact with the Masters Morya and Koot Hoomi?"


Here is my own answer to this question: 
I say, Yes and no.
There have as far as I know for centuries not been a global presentation of the Masters like we have now. - Now with mass-communication, Internet, TV, telephones, fast transportation etc. - Idries Shah and also other authors (in fact also HPB) refer to certain facts about the term "Master" or similar, and said that it had been known since days of old. But M and KH were not presented before in the manner HPB did. That I find to be true.

Idries Shah wrote:
"One of the first things that he could discover is that the very word 'Sufism' is a new one, a German coinage of 1821 [added: Thöluck, F.A.G., Ssufismus sive Theosophia Persarum pantheistica (Berlin 1821) in Latin]
No Sufi ignorant of Western languages would be likely to recognize it on sight. Instead of Sufism, our student would have to deal with such terms as 'the Qadris', named after the founder of a certain rule who died in 1166. Or he might come across references to 'the People of the Truth', 'the Masters', or perhaps 'the Near Ones'. another possibility is the Arabic phrase Mutassawif: 'he wgo strives to be a Sufi'. There are organizations called 'the Builders', 'the Blameworthy', which in constitution sometimes even minor sybolism closely resemble Western cults and societies like Freemasonry."


A few words from my research:
In the old days as well as today we learn about the Khwajagan (translate "Masters") of the Afghan - Kashmir region. A still wellknown term. Khwaja Ahmad Yasavi (who, it is said, was taught by Arslan Baba, his mausoleum is at Otrar) is said to be one of the old ones. (one source with some extra scholary related info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayram ). 

Before these we have "the Magis" or "Mages" ( "a member of the tribe") of old, who even are mentioned in the New Testament. ( The Catholic view: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09527a.htm - The Wikipedia view is quite different: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi) And HPB wrote about that there was an ancient tradition about the Masters existing beyond the Snowy Range of the Himalayas. And she also talked about the Rishis of old.

And mosten often we hear that they came from the East or the area of Persia and Himalaya.
In China there are similar old references to the Himalayas or the nearby region. There are of course also other references.

It is true, that the West had almost completely forgotten about these Mages and their teachings, because of the Christian religions dogmatism and its burning of witches at the stake, when HPB introduced them to the Western part of world.

These were just my views.


M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Govert Schuller 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:55 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World To Govert: Part 1 ---- HPB's Claims





  Dear Daniel,

  You asked:

  "Are there written documents prior to HPB's writings in which someone else claimed to be in contact with the Masters Morya and Koot Hoomi?"

  I have no answer to that as I have not looked for such. At the same time, to make the issue slightly more complex, it is possible (and I did point this out before I think) that their names were nomes de plume. 

  Anyway, according to HPB herself it should have been quite possible, because in the quote you provided she says about the brotherhood if which they were members that it was "hitherto unknown to Europe and America ... , yet sacred and revered throughout the East, and especially India...."

  Now, if I may, I'd like to ask you if you know of any evidence to support that claim. 

  Govert

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: danielhcaldwell 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 6:31 PM
  Subject: Theos-World To Govert: Part 1 ---- HPB's Claims

  Here are some of HPB's claims:

  *Isis Unveiled* I, v-vi, vii: "The work now submitted to public judgment is the fruit of a somewhat intimate acquaintance with Eastern adepts and study of their science....we came into contact with certain men, endowed with such mysterious powers and such profound knowledge that we may truly designate them as the sages of the Orient. To thier instructions we lent a ready ear.... Our work...is a plea for the recognition of the Hermetic philosoophy, the anciently universal Wisdom Religion."

  *The Path*, Dec., 1886, p. 257: "...I was the first in the United States to bring the existence of our Masters into publicity...[and] exposed the holy names of two members of a Brotherhood hitherto unknown to Europe and America (save to a few mystics and Initiates of every age), yet sacred and revered throughout the East, and especially India...."

  *The Key to Theosophy*, 1889 ed., pp. 302 & 301: "We Theosophists were, unfortunately, the first to talk of these things, to make the fact of the existence of in the East of `Adepts' and `Masters' and Occult knowledge known....Great are the desecrations to which the names of two of the Masters have been subjected. There is hardly a medium who has not claimed to have seen them. Every bogus swindling Society, for commercial purposes, now claims to be guided and directed by `Masters,' often supposed to be far higher than ours!...."

  Are there written documents prior to HPB's writings in which someone
  else claimed to be in contact with the Masters Morya and Koot Hoomi?

  This was the point I was trying to make in one or more prior postings.

  Daniel
  http://hpb.cc

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