Theos-Talk Archives (April 2009 Message tt00060)

Dear friends and Keith

My views are:


1.
Keith wrote:
"Members are normally only expelled when thy start to work against
the TS, not specifically for their views."

M. Sufilight answers:
Yes. And when this happens we all today will feel the heavy hand of leaders not being in contact with the Masters. If you ask me: I do not find that to be comforting at all.

So, now we agree, that TS have rules and teachings?

And in her book for Newbies, called - The Key to Theosophy - p-2-3, HPB added the following :
"ENQUIRER. What was the object of this system?

 THEOSOPHIST. First of all to inculcate certain great moral truths upon its disciples, and all those who were "lovers of the truth." Hence the motto adopted by the Theosophical Society: "There is no religion higher than truth." â The chief aim of the Founder of the Eclectic Theosophical School was one of the three objects of its modern successor, the Theosophical Society, namely, to reconcile all religions, sects and nations under a common system of ethics, based on eternal verities. "


Now I say:
If TS Adyar want to delete the above words by HPB and turn the TS into something else, they aught at least have the decency of telling people about it. Do they not?

I do hope we now can agree that there in fact are some rules and teachings within the ORIGINAL TS?


2.
Keith wrote:
"I didn't say there were no members in contact with Masters,
I answered your question which was, do I know any TS leaders
who were in contact."

M. Sufilight answers:
I also find that, You are quite right.



3.
Keith wrote:
"In my experience, the actions of members claiming to be in constant
contact with Masters, do not reflect it. I think we all need to be
careful that our ego doesn't trick us into believing we are superior
to our fellow beings."

M. Sufilight answers:
Yes. Let us be careful. And let us also recognize truth when it is proven to us.




M. Sufilight



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: keith_fisher@ymail.com 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:03 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar - The Truth Unveiled


  Dear Morton

  The Q & A are interesting and I sincerely thank Katinka for coming
  to my aid.

  TS lodges are autonomous so entry may vary slightly from place to place, but generally anybody who is in sympathy with the three
  objects and agrees to abide by the rules is welcome to join.

  Members are normally only expelled when thy start to work against
  the TS, not specifically for their views.

  I didn't say there were no members in contact with Masters,
  I answered your question which was, do I know any TS leaders
  who were in contact.

  In my experience, the actions of members claiming to be in constant
  contact with Masters, do not reflect it. I think we all need to be
  careful that our ego doesn't trick us into believing we are superior
  to our fellow beings.

  Best wishes
  Keith

  --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@...> wrote:
  >
  > Dear Keith and friends
  > 
  > My views are:
  > 
  > Thank you for taking your time to give an answer.
  > 
  > Keith wrote:
  > "While TS members have freedom of thought they will follow many paths,
  > religions, and schools of thought. All of their opinions vary.
  > None of them are binding on any TS member."
  > 
  > Yes. But are all kinds of members allowed? Even militant fanatics?
  > If not, then we have a limited kind of freedom to become a member, do we not?
  > And that was as I understand it the originale programe as HPB and the Masters was giving.
  > In the old days HPB kicked some of the members out of the TS. And some of the Alice A. Bailey groups have been kicked out in recent times as far as I remember.
  > So TS members do not actually have freedom of thought as I view the facts.
  > 
  > So where are the limits?
  > 
  > 
  > Keith wrote:
  > "In relation to your Q7, I don't know of any TS leaders claiming
  > to be in contact with Masters. Perhaps, they are all too evolved
  > to even mention it!"
  > 
  > My answer:
  > Interesting. I will contemplate that view.
  > 
  > So no theosophist in contact with the Masters these days. LOL.
  > That is strange.
  > 
  > If none other will do it, I will openly claim to have some contact with the Masters and Chelas, but I am not at all prepared to claim the same level of contact as HPB or Damodar had. Not at all. 
  > 
  > It is more often the Masters or certain chelas who contact me, than it is me who are in contact with them. And I am at present not on a level where I have intentions of promoting myself with an academic PH.D. (sometimes called a MBA in disguise) or similar on a signature-display and pronounce myself as a "real" teacher - as most theosophical leaders do these days. :-)
  > 
  > 
  > But I ask questions and have my views.
  > 
  > - - -
  > I also think I am sticking to facts. Try to read my answer to Katinkas answers on my questions.
  > Some of her answers and my answers are- most certainly - relating to the issues whom you say you are concerned with. - ...And....Katinka was fast and answered within a day.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > M. Sufilight
  > 
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: keith_fisher@... 
  > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:05 PM
  > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar - The Truth Unveiled
  > 
  > 
  > Dear Morton
  > 
  > It would probably take me two months to answer all those questions
  > and at best they would only be my opinions, which I am trying to
  > avoid giving on this thread.
  > 
  > While TS members have freedom of thought they will follow many paths,
  > religions, and schools of thought. All of their opinions vary.
  > None of them are binding on any TS member.
  > 
  > In relation to your Q7, I don't know of any TS leaders claiming
  > to be in contact with Masters. Perhaps, they are all too evolved
  > to even mention it!
  > 
  > I am sorry to be dismissive, but I think it is very important for
  > me to stick to the facts of recent events, the truth of which has
  > not been given. I will leave it to others to form opinions for
  > later debate.
  > 
  > Best wishes
  > Keith
  > 
  > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@> wrote:
  > >
  > > Dear Keith
  > > 
  > > My views are:
  > > 
  > > Thanks a lot. That is as far as I am concerned a good e-mail.
  > > 
  > > I have tons of questions to ask.
  > > But I will try to narrow it down to a "few".
  > > 
  > > Maybe you find my questions to be a bit off topic.
  > > But think, that if you relate them to the words in your e-mail, you will find that they could be relevant give an answer.
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 1. What core teachings are today followed in TS Adyar, when compared to the days when H. P. Blavatsky lived? And have those changes been created in accordance with the original programe given by HPB and the Masters? Or are they more in accordance with for instance J. Krishnamurtis or C. W. Leadbeaters views?
  > > 
  > > 2. Are TS today following the view given by HPB on the importance to protest against deviations from the theosophical teachings by the use of the Theosophical magazines or similar medias?
  > > 
  > > 3. Have TS changed its views upon the - level of - rejection of dogma and Christianity and Islam since HPB left the physical world? And to what degree or level? 
  > > 
  > > 4. Is God a "he" and/ or a physical being as most a great number of theosophical books on sale tells us? Are one required to believe in J. Krishnamurti as a World Teacher today? And if not, how can that be reconciled with the fact that TS are selling books about him?
  > > 
  > > 5. Can TS leaders today imagine persons who have been victims of child abuse to feel themselves to be WELL-comed and happy members of the TS? And if yes, how is that to come about, when everyone talks negatively about C. W. Leabeaters past supposed sexually related "deeds" or activities? And if so, how can that be reconciled with the fact that TS today are selling books written by C. W. Leadbeater?
  > > 
  > > 6. How are TS today relating to issues like UFOs, Cropcirlcles ("present day Mahatma Letters"?), and the so-called "Disclosure Project", while not being involved with Political activity?
  > > 
  > > 7. Are any TS leaders today claiming to be in contact with the Masters like in the old days of TS?
  > > 
  > > 8. Are the TS today succeding in the aim given by HPB to end the strife among various religions? (See The Key to Theosophy, p. 2-3.) If not why not, do you think?
  > > 
  > > 
  > > Some of these question have maybe been answered somewhere before.
  > > But I find them to be forwarded in various ways almost similar or relating very much to the above written by me, by a lot of persons on the Internet.
  > > 
  > > I will leave it up to you if you want to answer any of these questions.
  > > Silence is of course also an answer.
  > > - - -
  > > 
  > > H. P. Blavatsky wrote the article: "IS DENUNCIATION A DUTY?" 
  > > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v10/y1888_091.htm
  > > 
  > > 
  > > It was said: There is no religion higher than Truth.
  > > 
  > > - - -
  > > About me: 
  > > I have since childhood been a student of the theosophical teachings. 
  > > In my view: Atma=Brahman.
  > > 
  > > 
  > > M. Sufilight
  > > 
  > > 
  > > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > > From: keith_fisher@ 
  > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  > > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:11 PM
  > > Subject: Theos-World TS Adyar - The Truth Unveiled
  > > 
  > > 
  > > Dear Friends
  > > 
  > > I returned from the Theosophical Society in Adyar on 
  > > 1 March 2009 after serving a six months term as the 
  > > International Secretary. A critical situation arose in 
  > > August last year on the surprise resignation of the 
  > > Secretary, and I was asked to drop my life to take up the 
  > > position for a short length of time. I agreed to do a six
  > > month term and was appointed on 1 September 2008.
  > > 
  > > Since returning home I have had time to read the untruthful,
  > > inaccurate statements posted on the TS American website,
  > > regarding Adyar and the General Council Meeting in December,
  > > including the venomous, destructive statements emanating
  > > from New Zealand. 
  > > 
  > > This disgraceful situation needs addressing, as many TS members
  > > naturally place trust in their elected section leaders. 
  > > 
  > > I now find myself in the unique position of knowing the truth
  > > of these matters while holding no official position in the 
  > > Theosophical Society, except that I am an Australian member.
  > > 
  > > I would therefore, like to offer my services to members of the
  > > group who would like to know the truth. I do not wish to enter
  > > into lengthy dialogue, but I am willing to answer any sensible
  > > questions, truthfully, and to the best of my ability.
  > > 
  > > Best wishes
  > > Keith Fisher
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > >
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >


  

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