Theos-Talk Archives (March 2009 Message tt00296)

As far as I know he never disparaged the Masters or HPB - he walked away from the theosophy that had become dogmatic - he said the same as Buddha - follow no gurus

Cass




________________________________
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 12 March, 2009 4:53:14 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Evolution (AnandGholap.Net-Online Theosophy)


Well. To me and others it just offered another external Messiah, who never really offficially respected other teachers within the wisdom-teachings. Not even H. P. Blavatsky, who made it possible for him to trample on the work of the Masters and Blavatsky, by denying its value.

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Cass Silva 
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Evolution (AnandGholap. Net-Online Theosophy)

I agree that it doesn't matter whether or not KM was WT or not - his teachings related to the personal ego and humanity's need to assess its role in the suffering of the world - this teaching was sorely needed and counteracted the christian belief in a messiah saviour - I learnt much about the psychology of the personality because of his teachings

Cass

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Govert Schuller <schuller@alpheus. org>
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 11 March, 2009 7:04:11 AM
Subject: Theos-World Re: Evolution (AnandGholap. Net-Online Theosophy)

Dear Cass, 

I'm puzzled. With what do you agree? And how does that connect with what you think K basically said? 

Govert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Cass Silva 
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Evolution (AnandGholap. Net-Online Theosophy)

I agree Govert, basically all K said was take care of the ego and the monad will take care of itself.

Cass

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Govert Schuller <schuller@alpheus. org>
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Friday, 6 March, 2009 4:49:39 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Evolution (AnandGholap. Net-Online Theosophy)

Dear Anand,

I think in the end, without occult means, it will be impossible to really prove the point that K was not the WT. We only can deduce its high plausibility through carefull research and reasoning. 

Your target audience might be relatively small as the people believing that K was the WT are a handful of Theosophists and amongst them there are quite some that take K's line that it is not important to consider whether he was the WT or not. They'll just go with what they see as the intrinsic truth in K's teachings. The biggest and still growing audience you migh want to consider are the people in the K movement that have little or no idea of Theosophy. How to reach them? The obstacle is also that many there are very negative about Theosophy, some even considering Theosophy 'toxic waste.' 

This will also be a challenge to Theosophists that do belief in K as the WT and think that K can only be properly understood within a Theosophical framework. Therefore I would have no qualms in teaming up in a temporary, limited coalition with Krishnamurtian Theosophists to make Theosophy relevant for the Krishnamurti movement. We might agree that K's teachings strictly interpreted on K's own de-ocultized terms harbors spiritual risks only to be overcome by occult philosophy. 

Govert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Anand 
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 12:27 PM
Subject: Theos-World Re: Evolution (AnandGholap. Net-Online Theosophy)

Dear Govert,
I see that vast number of people are getting misled by J. Krishnamurti' s teaching of freedom from all religions, theosophy, teachers and their teachings. One major reason why people give importance to J. Krishnamurti is they believe World Teacher taught through him. 
I am convinced that World Teacher DID NOT teach through him. I want to prove to people that WT did not teach through him. If people understand it, they will not believe blindly in J. Krishnamurti and won't get misled by J. Krishnamurti. Now the question is how to prove that WT did not teach through J. Krishnamurti. That is why I sent this message.
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
This message is among the most important messages I wrote, because it shows that
J. Krishnamurti' s teaching has come from his own understanding of a human being,
and his teaching is not from Christ.
This passage is from the biography of J. Krishnamurti by Pupul Jaykar.
"At the opening of the Star camp at Ommen in 1927 Krishnamurti spoke a language
diametrically opposed to Theosophical teaching. On June 30 he said, "For many
lives and for all this life, and especially the last few months, I have
struggled to be free-free of my friends, my books, my associations. You must
struggle for the same freedom. There must be constant turmoil within you."
Krishnamurti was in revolt. No teacher or authority satisfied him."

Note the words "I have struggled to be free" It shows that struggle to become
free from authorities and teachings was Krishnamurti' s OWN struggle. It was not
the teaching given by true World Teacher or Christ.
J. Krishnamurti thought his own condition is same as that of millions of others
and so he recommends his own struggle to all others, when they were completely
different from him.
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
Best
Anand Gholap
--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Govert Schuller" <schuller@.. .> wrote:
>
> Dear Anand,
> 
> Krishnamurti' s reports on his own struggles have to be viewed in the context of his overall spiritual development and level of initiation. The crux might be that he went arguably through the 4th initiation with some tests where he had to be free and independent. Some call it the dark night of the soul (or spirit), where the initiate has to deal with certain challenges free from the Masters and his higher self. K might have liked the independence coming with that initiation too much and decided to stay in that mode and toss everything overboard, Masters and Theosophy included. 
> 
> Of course the struggles he went through were his own and can be evaluated positively and are, within certain bounds, applicable to everybody. The important caveat is that this struggle is only a phase within a larger process and should not be absolutized as K did. 
> 
> I do think you're on the right track, but to really make the case, you have to get a close reading of all events between 1921 and 1933 and all set within a Theosophical paradigm of understanding and not K's own, fascinating, alluring and valuable as that also might be. 
> 
> And to make such an investigation really work we have to incorporate some considerations derived from "the philosophy of science of religion" as developed by some researchers with a keen sense of methodology. I'm still trying to wrap my my around the topic and it feels I'm almost there to share some insights. The important thing is that those methodological considerations are trying to straddle the area between religionism and reductionism in a very similar way as Therosophy tries a middle way between theological dogmatism (religionism) and materialism (reductionism) . 
> 
> Govert
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Anand 
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 2:36 AM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: Evolution (AnandGholap. Net-Online Theosophy)
> 
> 
> This message is among the most important messages I wrote, because it shows that J. Krishnamurti' s teaching has come from his own understanding of a human being, and his teaching is not from Christ.
> This passage is from the biography of J. Krishnamurti by Pupul Jaykar.
> "At the opening of the Star camp at Ommen in 1927 Krishnamurti spoke a language diametrically opposed to Theosophical teaching. On June 30 he said, "For many lives and for all this life, and especially the last few months, I have struggled to be free-free of my friends, my books, my associations. You must struggle for the same freedom. There must be constant turmoil within you." Krishnamurti was in revolt. No teacher or authority satisfied him."
> 
> Note the words "I have struggled to be free" It shows that struggle to become free from authorities and teachings was Krishnamurti' s OWN struggle. It was not the teaching given by true World Teacher or Christ. 
> J. Krishnamurti thought his own condition is same as that of millions of others and so he recommends his own struggle to all others, when they were completely different from him. 
> Best
> Anand Gholap
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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