Theos-Talk Archives (March 2009 Message tt00153)

Dear Adelasie,

Thank you as usual for your answers.

You write, "You ask some very pertinent and probing questions 
which I will attempt to respond to. Keep in mind I am no authority?"

I would suggest none of us are Adelasie. I would also suggest that 
the operations of the Kosmos are infinitely more profound than the 
human mind can possibly conceive. For this reason among many, 
perhaps we are all students, struggling with our limited and limiting 
minds and egos.

My emphasis through study is to consider, and wherever possible 
understand the teachings practically, ie. how might they, and can they, apply to the experiential life.

For the purpose of this dialogue I would like to address the 
current points with particular reference to your rhetorical question, "Why not then stay within the Light...."

I sense this might be a familiar theme for you and I, which makes its
investigation all the more interesting to me.

May I ask, what is your understanding of, and what exactly do you mean by "the Light?"

Kind regards
Nigel 


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "adelasie" <adelasie@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Nigel, 
> 
> You ask some very pertinent and probing questions which I will 
> attempt to respond to. Keep in mind I am no authority, just a student 
> attempting to live according to the ideals I hold and find very well 
> represented in the body of teaching we call Theosophy. These ideals, 
> which could also be called principles, or fundamentals of occultism, 
> I find endlessly useful in trying to sort out the miasma of phenomena 
> on the material plane. 
> 
> *******-
> You write, "Whenever one pole of manifestation is activated,
> its opposite is also activated."
> 
> Is this entirely accurate? Undoubtedly, for there to be hot
> there must be cold. But is this cold only in potential
> until an experiencer manifests/experiences it?
> A:
> In the absolute sense this principle applies, although on the 
> material plane, where we humans make our observations, it may not be 
> apparent in any given case. The pairs if opposites actually represent 
> two sides, or "ends" of the same thing, or entity. So perhaps, clumsy 
> as it sounds in words, we consider temperature, cold being one 
> extreme and heat being the other. When the aspect of one is 
> activated, the other must also be activated, usually in a cyclic 
> manner. So, for example, we have hot weather, and then we have cold 
> weather. One follows the other, and both are inextricably related to 
> each other by virtue of being a part of the same phenomenon, which we 
> call temperature. The issue of potential/realized is an interesting 
> one. Perhaps we could see it in terms of the relative nature of time. 
> Everything exists all the time, but manifestation takes a cyclic 
> pattern, some aspects of which seem to be mutually exclusive. It is 
> either day or night, for instance, but cannot be both. This is a 
> function of our perception being limited to the illusion of the 
> linear quality of time as we know it. 
> 
> *******
> As you write, "When an organization makes progress toward
> manifesting some aspect of the Unity of all Life, the forces of
> separation and disintegration become very noisy and boistrous."
> 
> This is so often the case, but why and how?
> Do the forces of separation and disintegration have to be
> manifested?
> Is it a requirement?
> A:
> Maybe not so much a requirement as just Natural Law. Life is made of 
> motion, and the motion is cyclic. We (humanity) perceive this cyclic 
> motion as moving back and forth in terms of the pairs of opposites 
> that constitute our world. It's all a matter of consciousness. This 
> is the most we can perceive at this stage of our evolution. In the 
> case of Unity/Separation, as in all other cases really, on some 
> level, we humans have a choice as to how we experience the 
> phenomenon. Do we choose to support the Unity or do we choose to 
> support the Separation? Our individual and collective choices make a 
> lot of difference in the organization, for instance, and can even 
> determine its success or failure. 
> 
> *******
> If so, who or what requires it?
> Or is it within the nature of the process for this to occur?
> And if it is, is it not for us to participate in?
> And if so, how?
> A:
> Who requires that the sun comes up over the horizon every morning? We 
> theosophists prefer not to personalize the forces of Nature, although 
> it is comforting sometimes to imagine the Sun God Apollo driving his 
> gleaming golden chariot across the sky every day. It gives us 
> something to aspire to, to be the bringer of the Light that is our 
> Life. Indeed, our conscious participation in the processes of our 
> lives appears to me to be the purpose for being here on earth. Are we 
> a part of the problem or a part of the solution, day by day, minute 
> by minute, thought word and deed by thought word and deed? 
> 
> *******
> To elaborate, you write, "When the student, for instance, makes
> a vow to himself to follow his highest aspirations, his lower self
> will be tested to whatever degree he can endure."
> 
> This is an oft repeated idea in our theosophical circles, albeit
> open to different interpretations.
> What is/are your interpretation/s as to the instigation and
> process of this testing?
> "Who" or what does the testing, and if it is ourselves, which part of
> ourselves?
> If it is karma, do you think this is an internally directed process
> or conducted by an external authority?
> 
> Or, as before questioned, is it the nature of the process itself?
> And if so, is it not for us in which to participate and perhaps even
> instigate?
> A:
> Yes it is the nature of the process itself, but that process is a 
> part of us as we are a part of it. The Unity Principle again. Useful 
> here to remember is the seven-fold nature of existence. We humans 
> live and experience life in our four fold bodies, but our eternal 
> self, the trinity, exists always and is what we can call our Higher 
> Self, our conscience, our Soul, our Highest Ideals, that part of our 
> consciousness that has evolved to the point where it knows that it 
> knows what is right and what is wrong and can make choices 
> accordingly.  Karma is the vast impersonal law of balance, 
> continually adjusting, through our efforts, to insure harmony 
> throughout the universe. It's like gravity, what goes up must come 
> down. Humanity has a big responsibility in these matters. Again, 
> there is nothing external to anything else. Every "thing" there is is 
> connected with every other thing. What we think, what we say, what we 
> do, quite literally affects every particle of life everywhere. As we 
> say, "There are no little things." 
> *******
> 
> I look very forward to your thoughts on these considerations,
> particularly with respect to your statement, "Why not then stay
> within the Light...."
> A:
> A useful aspiration, it occurs to me, particularly in a cycle such as 
> this one, when the stakes are so very high, at least for us 
> earthlings.
> 
> Really I wonder at myself daring to offer my thoughts to someone like 
> you, such a scholar and deep thinker as you are. Perhaps you would 
> respond and offer what you think/know about these issues? I would 
> feel grateful.
> 
> All the best,
> Adelasie
>