Theos-Talk Archives (March 2009 Message tt00056)

Dear Cass and friends.

My views are:

Thanks for e-mailing this.

Poor, poor Subba T. Row.
Like many of us he felt the hard hand of Karma and spiritual training.
Spiritual traning can indeed be a tough exercise.

Mistakes do occur on the "Path". And CWL, HPB, JK, AAB and Besant all of them had their share. And indeed som more than others.

- - -

I find, that One of the problems with various debates is sometimes, the overwhelming stubbornness among various Seekers with regard to the infallibility of their favourite author or teacher.




M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cass Silva 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 12:59 AM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: C.W. Leadbeater, the greatest occultist-saint of all times


  Subba Row 
  The Real Subba Row

  If one reads between the lines we can see that Subba Row was only a chela â was not initiated and was useful  as a Brahmin  to translate and discourse on the Bhagavad Gita â he appears also to be an intellectual snob as he would only converse with those he felt his equal and from all accounts a racist.  He died a horrible death and one has to wonder about what karma generated this disease â his body was full of seething pus.  He like Krishnamurti were Advaitees and not Buddhists, yet Anand and others worship at his feet.
   
  Cass
   
  http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/subba.htm
   
  As a conversationalist he was most brilliant and interesting; an afternoon's sitting with him was as edifying as the reading of a solid book. But this mystical side of his character he showed only to kindred souls. What may seem strange to some is the fact that, while he was obedient as a child to his mother in worldly affairs, he was strangely reticent to her, as he was to all his relatives and ordinary acquaintances, about spiritual matters. His constant answer to her importunities for occult instruction was that he âdared not reveal any of the secrets entrusted to him by his Guruâ. He lived his occult life alone. That he was habitually so reserved, gives the more weight to the confidential statements he made to the members of his own household." 
      MLChr, 129: In February 1882 wrote the Mahatma M. in a letter to A.P. Sinnett: "You must have patience with Subba Row. Give him time. He is now at his tapas and will not be disturbed. I will tell him not to neglect you but he is very jealous and regards teaching an Englishman as a sacrilege." 
  ODL, III, 398:"About the same time [the first week of December 1886] I received from H.P.B., for reading and revision by T. Subba Row and myself, the MS. of Vol. I of The Secret Doctrine;* but in his then captious mood the former refused to do more than read it, saying that it was so full of mistakes that if he touched it he should have to rewrite it altogether! This was mere pique, but did good, for when I reported his remark to H.P.B. she was greatly distressed, and set to work and went over the MS. most carefully, correcting many errors due to slipshod literary methods, and with the help of European friends making the book what it is now." 
  *The so-called 'First Draft' or the 'WÃrzburg Ms', see H.P.B.'s Collected Writings, vol. XIV, pp. xxviii-xxix and 457-502; but see also Daniel H. Caldwell's article The Myth of the 'Missing' Third Volume of The Secret Doctrine in The American Theosophist, Late Spring/Early Summer 1995, pp. 18-25.
      ODL, IV, 23, 25: "It is painful beyond words to read her [H.P.B.'s] correspondence from Europe [in 1887], and see how she suffered from various causes, fretting and worrying too often over mare's nests. Out of the sorest grievances I select the defection of T. Subba Row...; the refusal of Subba Row to edit the Secret Doctrine MSS., contrary to his original promise, although she had it type-copied at a cost of  80 and sent me for that purpose; his wholesale condemnation of it...
      "As regarded her return to India, she had no heart for it if Subba Row was to be her enemy, so much had she loved and respected him..." 
  The Dispute on the Principles in 1887 
      Obit: "A dispute - due in a measure to third parties - which widened into a breach, arose between H.P.B. and himself about certain philosophical questions, but to the last he spoke of her, to us and to his family, in the old friendly way." 
  His Resigning from Membership of the T.S. in 1888 
      ODL, IV, 43: "[In 1888] things were growing more and more unpleasant at Adyar on account of the friction between T. Subba Row and certain of his Anglo-Indian backers. They even went so far as to threaten withdrawal from the Society and the publication of a rival magazine if H.P.B. did not treat them better. In fact, Subba Row and one of his friends did resign that year, but I gave myself no uneasiness about the projected magazine, for the basis of success - persevering effort and unselfish zeal for Theosophy - were not among the strong points of their characters." 
      Theos, Suppl, June 1888, xli: "We are requested to announce that Mr. T. Subba Row, B.A., B.L., late President of the Madras Branch T.S., and Mr. J.N. Cook (late of the London Lodge) have resigned their membership..." 
      Ransom, 246-7: "To his great regret the President received the resignation of T. Subba Row. It was brought about by the appeal in The Path (U.S.A.), February [1888, pp. 354-5], by a number of American members [45, headed by W.Q.J] to the âRespected Chiefâ, H.P.B., to bring out The Secret Doctrine without further delay. They heard she had been asked to withdraw it from publication lest it be âattacked or ridiculed by some East Indian pandits and that it was not wise to antagonise these Indian gentlemenâ. These remarks were objected to by N.D. Khandalavala, Tukaram Tatya, K.M. Shroff and others [17 members, in The Path, June 1888, pp. 97-8] who declared that there were no objections in India...[etc]" 
   
  ODL, IV, 241-2: "On the 3rd of June I visited T. Subba Row at his request and mesmerised him. He was in a dreadful state, his body covered with boils and blisters from crown to sole, as the result of blood poisoning from some mysterious cause. He could not find it in anything that he had eaten or drunk, and so concluded that it must be due to the malevolent action of elementals, whose animosity he had aroused by some ceremonies he had performed for the benefit of his wife. This was my own impression, for I felt the uncanny influence about him as soon as I approached. Knowing him for the learned occultist that he was, a person highly appreciated by H.P.B., and the author of a course of superb lectures on the Bhagavad-Gita, I was inexpressibly shocked to see him in such a physical state. Although my mesmeric treatment of him did not save his life, it gave him so much strength that he was able to be moved to another house, and when I saw him ten days later
  he seemed convalescent, the improvement dating, as he told me, from the date of the treatment. The change for the better was, however, only temporary..."
   
  ODL, IV, 241-2: "On the 3rd of June I visited T. Subba Row at his request and mesmerised him. He was in a dreadful state, his body covered with boils and blisters from crown to sole, as the result of blood poisoning from some mysterious cause. He could not find it in anything that he had eaten or drunk, and so concluded that it must be due to the malevolent action of elementals, whose animosity he had aroused by some ceremonies he had performed for the benefit of his wife. This was my own impression, for I felt the uncanny influence about him as soon as I approached. Knowing him for the learned occultist that he was, a person highly appreciated by H.P.B., and the author of a course of superb lectures on the Bhagavad-Gita, I was inexpressibly shocked to see him in such a physical state. Although my mesmeric treatment of him did not save his life, it gave him so much strength that he was able to be moved to another house, and when I saw him ten days later
  he seemed convalescent, the improvement dating, as he told me, from the date of the treatment. The change for the better was, however, only temporary..."

  ________________________________
  From: Anand <AnandGholap@gmail.com>
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Saturday, 28 February, 2009 9:51:10 PM
  Subject: Theos-World Re: C.W. Leadbeater, the greatest occultist-saint of all times

  Below is what I called Subba Rao- Leadbeater theory.
  [Statement by C.W. Leadbeater]

  `June 14th, 1885: Subba Row related to us recently more
  concerning Madame's remarkable complex character than I, at least, had
  previously known; and it shows us plainly how foolish it would be to
  blame her for what in anyone else would be called a want of common
  moral qualities. We were right in believing that the original H. P.
  Blavatsky, who was by nature clairvoyant and who had some knowledge of
  occultism, disappeared from earth life some twenty years ago, and that
  a certain Adept, who in some way had failed to reach his goal,
  voluntarily took possession of her body, or was placed there ---
  partly as a punishment, in order to do all in his power to promulgate
  the truth through her. We likewise understood rightly that when
  engaged on other business he was frequently absent from this body. But
  now I come to a point about which I was completely in error. I thought
  that during the absence of the Adept, the body was in a state similar
  to that of Margrave in Bulwer Lytton's "Strange Story," only animated
  by its original lower constituents. But it seems this was not the
  case. At her death, all the usual constituents of the body left it as
  with that of others, and the present inhabitant had to supply the
  whole want from his own organisation. For this purpose two Chelas, but
  little versed in occultism, were selected to take the Adept's place
  when necessary; and as no Adept or Chela can enter into a woman's body
  during times of illness, at such times it had to be taken possession
  of by a terrible ill-tempered, ignorant old Tibet woman, in place of
  the Adept or Chelas, as she was the only female available for this
  purpose. It seems that when either of the four replaced one of the
  others, he or she had no idea of what had been said or done by the
  predecessor, and thus endless confusion occurred. This explains the
  fact that Madame so often contradicts what she had said a few hours
  previously, which fact naturally greatly excited Hodgson's suspicions.
  It likewise accounts for the fact that sometimes she seems to know
  less about occultism than we ourselves do, while at others she speaks
  with the power and authority of a Rishi. For months together, in
  consequence of her various illnesses, the terrible old woman alone has
  inhabited her almost all the time, and all around her have suffered
  from her ill-temper. Still the Adept maintains his connection, in the
  hope, as we think, to be able to complete his promulgation of the
  "secret doctrine" through her. Whether this poor diseased body will
  hold together long enough for this purpose no one at present can
  predict. Of course this true explanation is useless for outsiders. But
  I think I can give even to them a satisfactory explanation of Madame's
  contradictions without attributing intentional untruth to her, when I
  inform them that, as a Russian, she was prone to exaggeration, coupled
  with an unretentive memory and an excitable style of speaking; and
  especially when we consider that English is not her mother tongue ---
  [Olcott boasts of her that her English is classic --- Professor
  Sellin] --- and therefore she often makes mistakes. Poor old lady! her
  life has truly been a wonderful one, and who can say what will still
  come of it!'
  http://blavatskyarc hives.com/ anoncomplex. htm

  --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
  <global-theosophy@ ...> wrote:
  >
  > What is the "Rao-Leadbeater theory" ?
  > 
  > 
  > M. Sufilight
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: Anand 
  > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
  > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 8:45 AM
  > Subject: Theos-World Re: C.W. Leadbeater, the greatest
  occultist-saint of all times
  > 
  > 
  > I think most satisfactory, though not complete, explanation of what
  > Blavatsky was is given by Subba Rao-Leadbeater theory. I hope more
  > research will be done on that topic. 
  > 
  > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Anand" <AnandGholap@ > wrote:
  > >
  > > 
  > > > " [Blavatsky's housekeeper, Emma Cutting, demonstrated] how
  she and
  > > > HPB had made a doll together, which they ... manipulated on a long
  > > > bamboo pole in semi-darkness to provide the Master's alleged
  > > > apparitions. Emma had also dropped "precipitated" letters on to
  > > > Theosophical heads from holes in the ceiling...
  > > 
  > > We can see how talented our founder was.
  > >
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >

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