Theos-Talk Archives (February 2009 Message tt00400)

Dear Morten,

Belated thanks for pointing out the Scott material and its relevance in evaluating K.

So far, it looks to me that CWL, despite all his faults, was used by the Masters to find and initially train K. A forthcoming study based on primary sources about the writing of "At the Feet of the Masters" will hopefully throw a little more light on the role of CWL and present more facts to base an opinion on. 

It looks like to me that the Masters are just have to row with the oars they have. 

Govert

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Morten Nymann Olesen 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:56 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Krishnamurti on who are you


  Dear John and friends

  My views are:

  Your views might be true.

  I would however mention another angle is posssible. At various times certain magicians come forward and are able to impact various persons emotional bodies - and the persons find the influence to be spiritual, or it happens through what we call selv-suggestion. The WANT to experience something so badly, that they experience what they seek, and that they call a genuine spiritual experience - no matter if it in truth just simply was a few elementals or astral energies they felt, or a selfimagined sign of having seen the Avatar og the Age - was felt. - If one tell them the truth about it all - they will wehemently deny it totally - using strong emotional language etc. etc.

  Yes, I also find Hodson saying that J. Krishnamurti was overshadowed.
  And I will agree on two or three occasion in the twenties so far.

  But, I will not call J. Krishnamurti a genuinie theosophist. He in part damaged the TS, both willingly and unwillingly. He must have known, that his activities was not similar to Ammonius Saccas and H. P. Blavatsky seeking to unite the various religious bodies, so to end the continous strifes.
  And the blurred image of himself (Avatar of the Age or not) he - CLEARLY - allowed to remain among the those who sought to know about him, also created trouble. And allowing himself to be discovred singlehandedly by an alledged (former?) phaedophile was certainly not helpful to the theosophical cause. - And giving people the impression, that he was not allowing a Guru - or Master-Chela teachings was wrong. - And moreso his statements about TS and the later distance to TS Adyar and TS as such is and was not in his favour. In the end he seemed to regret it, and change his mind.

  Official public World Teacher of the Age is not helpful to the theosophical cause, who needs to KNOW the truth and to believe the truth. Creating emotionalism is not the best path to follow for most people.

  - - -
  No.
  I would suggest that the readers listen to the words by Sir Thomas in Cyril Scotts book.

  Here is the quote from Cyril Scotts book where Sir Thomas is given the word:
  http://www.alpheus.org/html/source_materials/krishnamurti/truth_about_k.html

  The whole book is online here. Try reading the chapter on page 56-59:
  "The Initiate in the Dark Cycle"
  http://home1.stofanet.dk/theos-octagon/The%20Initiate%20In%20The%20Dark%20Cycle.pdf

  M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 11:03 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Krishnamurti on who are you

  Morten, 
  I might reply in the context of Hodson's extract. I have a cultured view on the iteration he makes as to KM, the overshadowing of him by another presence that he characterizes as "The World Teacher that is now in our midst". He meant in my personal view the "Agency" that stepped into his animation of form known as Krishna Murti who, when that happened, stepped aside and became the observer like the rest of the people present. I experienced a similar manisfestation in 1976-81 and even later. I also witnessed many people extremely impacted by the given offered words of "The Vessal of Light". I even on several occasions posted some of them here on this forum over the last 10 years. I too witnessed many people enraptured in unremoveable concentration and rapport being moved to the point of tears rolling down their cheeks enmass not just by the words but also by the the unique remarkable rare and powerful energy radiated by the presence itself which performed penetration to the inner person. So in remembrance of what I was allowed to participate and receive then I understand that KM did not mean himself but what he became receptacle of. The Agency he meant was beyond his form, intellect and means in my view. I spent years near something just like this, but also quite different in nature and context. The person in my case would never claim he was the Agency that spoke through him, and I doubt Krishna Murti would have either. So one needs to keep the to Natures divided from each other. I coined the expression "Switching Gears" back in 1976-7 to characterize the change of contenance and vocalized voice that was completely different than the normal persons idioms and vocal sounds. The co-habitation in the beginning was marked and definite viz one to the other. Later it became very, very subtle, so much so that one could only know the Agency was present if one had known the everyday person intimately for extended period as I had. Others who had not this advantage thought there was only one person present when in fact they both were there, but so subtle discrimination was not part of the new casual observers ability. As Hodson said there was a spiritual influence emanating from KM , so it was also the fact with my direct experiance in this case. It was not scant or diffused energy but it impinged to the point you knew and felt the energy projected to all present. During this case at a certain time , at a certain place and in a state of "projection" and receptivity the "Vessel of Light" said taking his right hand "By this act we are joined for eternity" this established a continued "Rapport" that remained until his physical death on Jan. 20, 2009. In 1999 he said "I do not see my face in the return of the Children---- nontheless----- I do awake each day with the voice of " ------" within me." So it is plausible that this circumstance was also established alike in the case of Krishna Murti. In no way was it the personality normal in KM 's historical life. Just my personal POV. 

  Regards, 
  John 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 10:35:13 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Krishnamurti on who are you 

  Did you read my previous e-mail? 
  How can one learn to know one self without being guided and without comparative studying? 
  Is it safe to promote a psychological revolution inwardly without a guide? 

  1. 
  J. Krishnamurti said: 
  "I know that which I am; I know my purpose in life because I am Life itself without name, without limitation. And because I am Life I would urge you to worship that Life, not in this form that is Krishnamurti but the Life which dwells in each one of you. Put aside all the paraphernalia of beliefs, religions and ceremonies, and you will find the Truth." 
  (The seventh International Camp of the Order of the Star 
  held at Ommen, Holland, August 6th, 1928) 

  http://jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1928-let-understanding-be-the-law/jiddu-krishnamurti-let-understanding-be-the-law-07.php 

  2.AN APPRECIATION OF C. W. LEADBEATER By Geoffrey Hodson 

  "As I have elsewhere written, I attended several of the Star Camps in Holland and was present when there was evidence of remarkable, if brief, supernormal manifestations. On more than one occasion some two thousand people from many parts of the world were gathered at Ommen to hear Krishnamurti. Each evening, all were seated in concentric circles round a large camp fire. Krishnamurti would arrive, take his place for a time, and then rise and apply a torch to the camp fire. As the flames arose against the evening sky he would chant a mantram to the god Agni, and return to his seat. Thereafter he would begin to speak, and on more than one occasion a noticeable change took place in him. His voice altered and his hitherto rather iconoclastic utterances gave way to a wonderful tenderness of expression and thought which induced in those present an elevation of consciousness. The Talks were followed by prolonged meditative silences. Many of those present, myself among them, bore testimony to the sense of divine peace which had descended, to a realization of the Presence of the Lord, and to an assurance that the prophecy had begun to be fulfilled. These phenomena occurred during some few successive years, the events being so marked that Krishnamurti himself there after changed the Objects of the Order of the Star in the East from, in effect, "To prepare for the coming of the Lord" to "To serve the World Teacher now that He is in our midst." I, myself, more than once heard Krishnamurti affirm that the great Teacher was now here and that the "Coming" had actually occurred. Even now when he is speaking, with others I discern a spiritual influence emanating from him, as if a great Being were still using him as a vehicle.This, however, does not constitute a complete fulfillment of the original prophecy." 
  www.theosophical.org/resources/articles/AppreciationofCWL.pdf (written around 1965) 

  A Nobody or Guru or Messiah or partly a Messiah? Unimportant to J. Krishnamurti? 

  M. Sufilight 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: christinaleestemaker 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 6:50 PM 
  Subject: Theos-World Krishnamurti on who are you 

  http://video.google.nl/videosearch?q=krishnamurti+on+whoam 
  +I&hl=nl&emb=0&aq=f# 

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