Theos-Talk Archives (February 2009 Message tt00248)

Mystic and occult are not they from the same root, both are hidden.

Christina



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Govert Schuller" <schuller@...> 
wrote:
>
> Annie Besant on the difference of the path of the mystic and the 
path of the occultist:
> 
> The Occultist and the Mystic differ in their methods as well as in 
their object. The Occultist seeks knowledge of God; the Mystic seeks 
union with God. The Occultist uses Intellect; the Mystic Emotion. The 
Occultist watches Ideas embodying themselves in phenomena; the Mystic 
unfolds the Divine within him that it may expand into the Divinity 
whose Body is a universe. These sharp-cut definitions are, of course, 
true only of abstract types; the concrete individuals shade off into 
each other, and the perfected Occultist finally includes the Mystic, 
the perfected Mystic finally includes the Occultist. But on the way 
to perfection, the Occultist must evolve, pari passu, his 
consciousness and the successive vehicles in which that consciousness 
works; while the Mystic sinks into the depths of his consciousness, 
and cares naught for the bodies, which he disregards and abandons. To 
borrow two well known terms: the Occultist tends to become the 
Jîvanmukta, the liberated Spirit residing in material bodies; the 
Mystic tends to become the Jîvanmukta, the liberated Bodiless One. 
The Occultists rise, grade by grade, through the Hierarchy; the 
Mystics become the Nirmãnakãyas, the Reservoir of Spirituality, from 
which are drawn the streams which irrigate the worlds. Blessed, holy 
and necessary are both types, the two Hands of the One LOGOS in His 
helping of His universe.
> 
> From: Annie Besant "Occultism" (Adyar Pamphlet 97, 1919)
> http://www.anandgholap.net/AP/Occultism-AB.htm
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Morten Nymann Olesen 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:08 AM
>   Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Krishnamurti on who are you
> 
> 
>   Dear friends
> 
>   I would like to know if there are some examples from HPB or other 
theosophists telling us or stating, as something obvious, that when 
one walks the path, one can avoid to learn about Occultism. I have 
always had the opposite view on the issue.
> 
>   Anyone?
> 
>   M. Sufilight
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: christinaleestemaker 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:19 PM
>   Subject: Theos-World Re: Krishnamurti on who are you
> 
>   You Morten will tell me this is not theosophy!!!
>   Than you don't know what theosophy is.
>   Christina
> 
>   --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
>   theosophy@> wrote:
>   >
>   > I think I understand. But I think you also understand why I 
have to 
>   disagree with you.
>   > Simply because my knowledge tells me different. And because the 
>   theosophical teachings are saying it as well.
>   > 
>   > 
>   > M. Sufilight
>   > 
>   > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > From: christinaleestemaker 
>   > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:24 AM
>   > Subject: Re: Theos-World Krishnamurti on who are you
>   > 
>   > 
>   > I think I cannot help you, because your few is from another 
level.
>   > There is also Adi- anupudaka and after AtmaBuddhiManas.The ones 
>   who 
>   > are atmabuddhimanas can understand the higher states.
>   > And no one can tell me I don't know myself, also I cannot say 
>   you , 
>   > you don't know yourself, FOR I CANNOT KNOW THAT.UNDERSTAND?
>   > Christina
>   > 
>   > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" 
<global-
>   > theosophy@> wrote:
>   > >
>   > > Dear Christina and friends
>   > > 
>   > > My views are:
>   > > 
>   > > Maybe I am ignorant.
>   > > Could you enlighten me, so that I may understand your view?
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > Well to us theosophists Atma = Brahma for each human being. 
>   > Blavatsky said it several times. And so did her Masters. And 
>   since 
>   > Brahma knows about occultism. And since Atma is within you, 
even 
>   if 
>   > you would like it to go away I find your view difficult to 
agree 
>   upon.
>   > > 
>   > > But it is of course your choice if you find this view Atma = 
>   Brahma 
>   > to be false.
>   > > The most highest Divine is as far as I am aware within your 
>   very 
>   > own "I".
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > M. Sufiliight
>   > > 
>   > > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > > From: christinaleestemaker 
>   > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 9:35 PM
>   > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Krishnamurti on who are you
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > I never had heard so much nonsense.But oke it is yours.
>   > > Christina
>   > > 
>   > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" 
>   <global-
>   > > theosophy@> wrote:
>   > > >
>   > > > Dear Christina
>   > > > 
>   > > > You cannot know yourself without learning about occultism.
>   > > > That must be logical.
>   > > > 
>   > > > 
>   > > > M. Sufilight
>   > > > 
>   > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > > > From: christinaleestemaker 
>   > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 9:24 PM
>   > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Krishnamurti on who are you
>   > > > 
>   > > > 
>   > > > You asked about knowing theyself and not on occultism.
>   > > > Since when is knowing theyself occultism, for you maybe, 
but 
>   > not 
>   > > for 
>   > > > me.
>   > > > Christina
>   > > > 
>   > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" 
>   > <global-
>   > > > theosophy@> wrote:
>   > > > >
>   > > > > 
>   > > > > So I take it, that you disagre with H. P. Blavatsky, the 
>   > > Masters 
>   > > > and a whole range of Seers from India, Tibet and other 
>   > countries?
>   > > > > 
>   > > > > H. P. Blavatsky is clearly stating, that Occultism is 
>   > dangerous 
>   > > to 
>   > > > learn about without a guide.
>   > > > > Walking the path without learning about occultism is 
>   > impossible.
>   > > > > So if you want to call me and others "dullheads," where 
>   does 
>   > it 
>   > > > leave you, when not listening to those who have experienced 
>   the 
>   > > truth 
>   > > > about it?
>   > > > > 
>   > > > > 
>   > > > > M. Sufilight
>   > > > > 
>   > > > > 
>   > > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > > > > From: christinaleestemaker 
>   > > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 8:17 PM
>   > > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Krishnamurti on who are you
>   > > > > 
>   > > > > 
>   > > > > Everyone have its own way and don't need a guide for 
>   knowing 
>   > > him 
>   > > > or 
>   > > > > herself, only the dullheads need!!!
>   > > > > Christina
>   > > > > 
>   > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" 
>   > > <global-
>   > > > > theosophy@> wrote:
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > Did you read my previous e-mail?
>   > > > > > How can one learn to know one self without being guided 
>   and 
>   > > > without 
>   > > > > comparative studying?
>   > > > > > Is it safe to promote a psychological revolution 
inwardly 
>   > > > without a 
>   > > > > guide?
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > 1.
>   > > > > > J. Krishnamurti said:
>   > > > > > "I know that which I am; I know my purpose in life 
>   because 
>   > I 
>   > > am 
>   > > > > Life itself without name, without limitation. And because 
I 
>   > am 
>   > > > Life I 
>   > > > > would urge you to worship that Life, not in this form 
that 
>   is 
>   > > > > Krishnamurti but the Life which dwells in each one of 
you. 
>   > Put 
>   > > > aside 
>   > > > > all the paraphernalia of beliefs, religions and 
ceremonies, 
>   > and 
>   > > > you 
>   > > > > will find the Truth."
>   > > > > > (The seventh International Camp of the Order of the Star
>   > > > > > held at Ommen, Holland, August 6th, 1928) 
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > http://jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1928-let-understanding-
>   be-
>   > > the-
>   > > > law/
>   > > > > jiddu-krishnamurti-let-understanding-be-the-law-07.php
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > 2.AN APPRECIATION OF C. W. LEADBEATER By Geoffrey Hodson
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > "As I have elsewhere written, I attended several of the 
>   > Star 
>   > > > Camps 
>   > > > > in Holland and was present when there was evidence of 
>   > > remarkable, 
>   > > > if 
>   > > > > brief, supernormal manifestations. On more than one 
>   occasion 
>   > > some 
>   > > > two 
>   > > > > thousand people from many parts of the world were 
gathered 
>   at 
>   > > > Ommen 
>   > > > > to hear Krishnamurti. Each evening, all were seated in 
>   > > concentric 
>   > > > > circles round a large camp fire. Krishnamurti would 
arrive, 
>   > > take 
>   > > > his 
>   > > > > place for a time, and then rise and apply a torch to the 
>   camp 
>   > > > fire. 
>   > > > > As the flames arose against the evening sky he would 
chant 
>   a 
>   > > > mantram 
>   > > > > to the god Agni, and return to his seat. Thereafter he 
>   would 
>   > > > begin to 
>   > > > > speak, and on more than one occasion a noticeable change 
>   took 
>   > > > place 
>   > > > > in him. His voice altered and his hitherto rather 
>   > iconoclastic 
>   > > > > utterances gave way to a wonderful tenderness of 
expression 
>   > and 
>   > > > > thought which induced in those present an elevation of 
>   > > > consciousness. 
>   > > > > The Talks were followed by prolonged meditative silences. 
>   > Many 
>   > > of 
>   > > > > those present, myself among them, bore testimony to the 
>   sense 
>   > > of 
>   > > > > divine peace which had descended, to a realization of the 
>   > > > Presence of 
>   > > > > the Lord, and to an assurance that the prophecy had begun 
>   to 
>   > be 
>   > > > > fulfilled. These phenomena occurred during some few 
>   > successive 
>   > > > years, 
>   > > > > the events being so marked that Krishnamurti himself 
there 
>   > > after 
>   > > > > changed the Objects of the Order of the Star in the East 
>   > from, 
>   > > in 
>   > > > > effect, "To prepare for the coming of the Lord" to "To 
>   serve 
>   > > the 
>   > > > > World Teacher now that He is in our midst." I, myself, 
more 
>   > > than 
>   > > > once 
>   > > > > heard Krishnamurti affirm that the great Teacher was now 
>   here 
>   > > and 
>   > > > > that the "Coming" had actually occurred. Even now when he 
>   is 
>   > > > > speaking, with others I discern a spiritual influence 
>   > emanating 
>   > > > from 
>   > > > > him, as if a great Being were still using him as a 
>   > > vehicle.This, 
>   > > > > however, does not constitute a complete fulfillment of 
the 
>   > > > original 
>   > > > > prophecy."
>   > > > > > www.theosophical.org/resources/articles/
>   > AppreciationofCWL.pdf 
>   > > > > (written around 1965)
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > A Nobody or Guru or Messiah or partly a Messiah? 
>   > Unimportant 
>   > > to 
>   > > > J. 
>   > > > > Krishnamurti?
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > M. Sufilight
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > > > > > From: christinaleestemaker 
>   > > > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 6:50 PM
>   > > > > > Subject: Theos-World Krishnamurti on who are you
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > http://video.google.nl/videosearch?q=krishnamurti+on
+whoam
>   > > > > > +I&hl=nl&emb=0&aq=f#
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > 
>   > > > > > 
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