Theos-Talk Archives (February 2009 Message tt00094)

We are post atlantic.
Only mongols are from rootrace behind, but there are not so much with 
downsyndrome.
I believe HPB, not only need to read words but also behind them.
Christna






--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@...> wrote:
>
> Christina
> Not all monads are 5th Root Race - in fact we still have remnants 
of 3rd Root Race Lemurians in the Australian Aboriginal and some 
Chinese.  The Aryan are mainly directly descended from the 4th Root 
Race Atlantean with some advancing to 5th Root Race.
> Â 
> According to what I have  Lemurian RR was 4.7 million years - 
Atlantean 6.3 million years - so if we can date Atlantean destruction 
most monads will be 4th Root Race taking into consideration the time 
required to advance through all sub races of a Root Race.
> Â 
> Cass
> 
> --- On Thu, 5/2/09, christinaleestemaker <christinaleestemaker@...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> From: christinaleestemaker <christinaleestemaker@...>
> Subject: Theos-World Re: 4th sub-race ( 5 th of today)
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Thursday, 5 February, 2009, 12:25 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HPB on the fifth race, we are now to be read in
> SD 
> Vol. 1, Page 185 THE MAN, OR THE APE; WHICH THE FIRST?
> 
> Root-Race.* The cycle of metempsychosis for the human monad is 
> closed, for we are in the Fourth Round and the Fifth Root-Race. The 
> reader will have to bear in mind â?" at any rate one who has made 
> himself acquainted with "Esoteric Buddhism" â?" that the Stanzas 
which 
> follow in this Book and Book II speak of the evolution in our 
Fourth 
> Round only. The latter is the cycle of the turning-point, after 
> which, matter,
> 
> And so she write a lot of times about our 5 th rootrace of today 
and 
> also about 6 and 7 th for futute, you can find by yourself
> VgGr Christina
> 
> In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" <dzyan@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Nigel,
> > 
> > in the same way you read HPB you may also read the Holy Bible or 
> the Lotus Sutra or the Bhagavad Gita.
> > To me you have not quoted her exactly, you just have given the 
> letter, not the spirit.
> > It is only your mindset that you are under the illusion that HPB 
> wrote what you think.
> > 
> > And you have not explained of which sub-race HPB in your quote 
> speaks.
> > 
> > It seems you have no idea what esotericism is or what a blind is, 
> alsthough HPB explained it several times and although HPB openly 
> stated somewhere in the Secret Doctrine that all numbers and 
figures 
> concerning cycles are not given openly.
> > 
> > Nowhere said any of HPB's Mahatmas that we are in the 5th sub-
race 
> as Besant did.
> > The reason is that the Mahatmas grasp the teachings they teach.
> > They know that -as HPB also wrote - that the middle point of the 
> sub-race and their cataclysms come in 16,000 years from now.
> > That alone is sufficent alone for the thinking part of the 
> theosophists to know in which sub-race we are.
> > 
> > You seem not to consider that there is more knowledge as you have 
> observed so far. That is Hinayana, while HPB served the Mahayana 
path.
> > 
> > Frank
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: nhcareyta 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 1:10 AM
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: 4th sub-race
> > 
> > 
> > Dear Frank
> > 
> > You write, "But you are free to have your own interpretation 
> > of HPB."
> > 
> > Thank you. But I am merely quoting exactly what she has written 
> > and do not see any "blinds" that you suggest. Moreover the quotes 
> > from the Mahatmas appear to verify her statements.
> > 
> > Regards
> > Nigel 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" <dzyan@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Frank,
> > > my English seems to bad that you understand me.
> > > I do not need to find another quote of HPB, because your 
> > interpretation of the quote is wrong.
> > > Why should I therefore find another quote?
> > > 
> > > Obviously, you would like Besant this second quote also in a 
dead-
> > letter sense.
> > > 
> > > Shall a repeat all arguments I already have written?
> > > 
> > > While you give little credence in the writings of de Purucker, 
it 
> > seems you give more credence into your own interpretation of HPB.
> > > 
> > > Not that it could be not the case that you have more insight 
into 
> > the esoteric philosophy than de Purucker, only so far you have 
> > presented no proof or even hint except your dead-letter 
> > interpretation.
> > > 
> > > Bearing in mind, that we in the meantime had two world-wars, in 
> > which the question of the race played also a role, and that now 
64 
> of 
> > the last physical war are gone, from a theosophical point of view 
> it 
> > seems strange, that the misunderstandings among theosophists 
> continue 
> > into the 21th century.
> > > 
> > > Your argument - in contrast to what I have written before - 
looks 
> > fanatic and proud. But you are free to have your own 
interpretation 
> > of HPB.
> > > 
> > > Frank
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: nhcareyta 
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 2:15 PM
> > > Subject: Theos-World Re: 4th sub-race
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Dear Frank
> > > 
> > > Thank you for your reply.
> > > 
> > > For some reason you have introduced Dr Besant, Bishop 
> > > Leadbeater and Dr Purucker's interpretations.
> > > 
> > > I place little credence in much of their writings, but that is 
> > > largely irrelevant to the point I was offering.
> > > 
> > > Again, you write, "But true Theosophy teaches that we are 
> > > before the middle point of the 4th sub-race."
> > > 
> > > Madame Blavatsky wrote as quoted, ""But we are in the 
> > > 5th race, and we have already passed the turning or axial point 
> > > of our "sub-race cycle."
> > > 
> > > There are 7 sub-races. 
> > > 
> > > The fourth is the middle or axial sub-race, being between the 
> > > first and last 3.
> > > 
> > > From my understanding, a sub-race cycle is the period and 
> > > processing of all 7 sub-races. 
> > > 
> > > Madame Blavatsky is saying we are passed the middle point 
> > > of the sub-race cycle. 
> > > 
> > > This could indicate we are past the middle point of the fourth 
> > > sub-race itself or, from my understanding, we are actually 
> > > past the fourth sub-race altogether and are unfolding and 
> > > evolving through the fifth of the total sub-race cycle. 
> > > 
> > > Whichever, it does not seem to indicate we are before any of 
> > > these stages.
> > > 
> > > It appears we will have to respectfully disagree at this stage, 
> > > unless you can find a quote from Madame Blavatsky which negates 
> > > or casts further light on this perspective.
> > > 
> > > Thank you again.
> > > 
> > > Regards
> > > Nigel
> > > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" <dzyan@> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Nigel,
> > > > no, I will surely not agree as we speak here of two different 
> > > things.
> > > > 
> > > > If you consider what HPB writes before and after your 
quotation 
> > > about the calculation of the sub-races, you will be aware that 
> HPB 
> > > refers to our sub-race cycle within the subrace.
> > > > So Besant knew nothing about this esoteric blind of HPB and 
> > > believed in the dead-letter she found in the book.
> > > > 
> > > > Below I give one of many possible quotes from Gottfried de 
> > Purucker 
> > > about Besant's mistake from his "Studies". In 
> > > his "Fundamentals, "Dialogues" and "Occult Glossary" other 
quotes 
> > can 
> > > be found, that Besant and Leadbeater made a miscalculation 
about 
> > the 
> > > races.
> > > > 
> > > > So considering that HPB used blinds - which is to be expected 
> by 
> > > the most occult doctrine of the races, the cardinal dogma of 
the 
> > > Masters - how trustworthy are then the teachings of Besant and 
> > > Leadbeater on the races? And how trustworthy are their 
teachings 
> > > regarding other topics of which we may not have first-hand 
> > > information of de Purucker or another messenger of the Masters?
> > > > 
> > > > Is this then the "true Theosophy" of which Anand speaks?
> > > > Frank
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.theosoci ety.org/pasadena /soph/sopqa06. htm
> > > > Sub-Races of the Fifth Root-Race
> > > > I have been a reader of Theosophical literature for a number 
of 
> > > years and have understood from the teachings that we are now in 
> the 
> > > fifth Sub-Race of the Fifth Root-Race. But I read in Dr. de 
> > > Purucker's illuminating book, FUNDAMENTALS OF THE ESOTERIC 
> > > PHILOSOPHY, that this is a mistake; that we have not even 
reached 
> > the 
> > > middle of the fourth Sub-Race; and that earlier teaching has 
been 
> > an 
> > > intentional blind on this point. 
> > > > 
> > > > The present condition of the world certainly suggests that we 
> are 
> > > not a whole sub-race beyond the "acme of materiality. " But if 
> such 
> > is 
> > > the case, why was it necessary to withhold this teaching until 
> > today? 
> > > And why are we more ready to receive it now than fifty years 
ago? 
> > Can 
> > > anything further be said on this subject? 
> > > > 
> > > > The questioner, on the whole, has correctly understood my 
> various 
> > > references to the matter of the Races. It is, however, 
erroneous 
> to 
> > > suppose that the teaching concerning this matter has 
> > been 'withheld' 
> > > until today; and, consequently, the above statement suggesting 
> that 
> > > we are now more ready to receive the teachings than others were 
> > fifty 
> > > years ago is likewise a mistake. I would also like to point out 
> > that 
> > > the earlier teaching on this matter was not "an intentional 
> blind"; 
> > > but H. P. B.'s teachings regarding the Races as given in The 
> Secret 
> > > Doctrine, have not been in all respects properly understood. 
> > > > 
> > > > In Fundamentals of the Esoteric Philosophy, on page 239, I 
have 
> > > treated of this matter at sufficient length, it seems to me, 
> > although 
> > > briefly; and I suggest that the questioner and others who may 
be 
> > > interested in the facts, turn to H. P. B.'s The Secret Doctrine 
> and 
> > > especially to its Volume One, page 610, and ponder over the 
very 
> > > clear and definite statements therein made. 
> > > > 
> > > > "The acme of materiality in each" Race is always the fourth 
> stage 
> > > or sub-race "or central point," e.g., the fourth Sub-Race of 
any 
> > Root-
> > > Race. Further, H. P. B. on this page of The Secret Doctrine 
says 
> > very 
> > > clearly that "we are in the mid-point of our Sub-Race of the 
> Fifth 
> > > Root-Race -- the acme of materiality in each -- therefore the 
> > animal 
> > > propensities, though more refined," etc. Now, these words, "the 
> > acme 
> > > of materiality in each" solve the problem instantly, because 
two 
> > > things are here referred to: the Fifth Root-Race and its "acme 
of 
> > > materiality" which is the fourth Sub-Race; and, again, "the mid-
> > point 
> > > of our Sub-Race. It should be clear enough to anybody that 
being 
> at 
> > > the point where the "acme of materiality" in each is found, 
this 
> > > places us therefore at, or nearing the middle point of, the 
> fourth 
> > > Sub-Race of the Fifth Root-Race. However, as there are always 
> > cycles 
> > > within cycles, and smaller cycles again within these, even a 
> fourth 
> > > sub-race has its upward rises towards a relative intellectual 
> > > development or a relative spiritual development, and also its 
> > > descents thereafter. 
> > > > 
> > > > Since the discovery of America, we have been on the upward 
rise 
> > of 
> > > a small minor cycle within the fourth Sub-Race; and this 
accounts 
> > for 
> > > the great development in brain-mind intellectuality and for the 
> > > flowering of material energies which the most myopic of modern 
> > > individuals can see the signs of around us everywhere. 
> > > > 
> > > > To speak more accurately, we are at the present time actually 
> > > passing through a small fifth subordinate race, forming part of 
a 
> > > Family-Race, which in its turn is part of the fourth Sub-Race, 
> > which 
> > > is the lowest great sub-race of the Fifth Root-Race. 
> > > > 
> > > > Again, as every industrious student of the archaic Wisdom 
knows 
> > who 
> > > has pondered over the statements in H. P. B.'s The Secret 
> Doctrine, 
> > > every Root-Race, when its time comes, is cut in two in its 
middle 
> > > part, i.e., at about the middle point of its fourth Sub-Race, 
as 
> > > Atlantis was, and as Lemuria was. Such racial catastrophe 
> obviously 
> > > has not yet befallen us of the Fifth Root-Race; and the 
deduction 
> > is 
> > > of course immediate and obvious: we have not yet reached the 
> middle 
> > > point of the fourth Sub-Race of the Fifth Root-Race -- although 
> we 
> > > are not far from this middle point. 
> > > > 
> > > > H. P. B. in The Secret Doctrine furthermore shows that the 
> karmic 
> > > geologic destiny of Europe -- when the final closing of many 
> racial 
> > > accounts will take place -- requires some sixteen thousand or 
> more 
> > > years before that event, a geologic racial catastrophe, reaches 
> its 
> > > maximum. But meanwhile, "coming events cast their shadows 
> before"; 
> > > and very serious seismic, tidal, and other catastrophic events 
> will 
> > > happen to certain European countries between now and the 
sixteen 
> > > thousand years period of grace that Europe still has. H. P. B. 
> has 
> > > alluded to these events on several occasions in her writings, 
as 
> in 
> > > The Theosophist in an article later republished in Five Years 
of 
> > > Theosophy, and also in articles in her Lucifer, in which places 
> she 
> > > calls attention to tidal waves and disastrous earthquakes that 
> are 
> > > already occurring, and clearly pointing to what will come in 
the 
> > > future. 
> > > > 
> > > > Were we now in the fifth Sub-Race, as some have mistakenly 
> > > supposed, we should have passed the cutting in two of our Fifth 
> > Root-
> > > Race; but this last has not occurred. The conclusion is 
therefore 
> > > obvious. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: nhcareyta 
> > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:40 AM
> > > > Subject: Theos-World Re: 4th sub-race
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Dear Frank
> > > > 
> > > > You write, "But true Theosophy teaches that we are before the 
> > > > middle point of the 4th sub-race."
> > > > 
> > > > However Madame Blavatsky writes, "But we are in the 5th race, 
> > > > and we have already passed the turning or axial point of our 
> > > > "sub-race cycle."
> > > > Occult Or Exact Science?
> > > > [The Theosophist, Vol. VII, No. 79, April, 1886, pp. 422-431]
> > > > 
> > > > As the fourth sub-race is the "axial point", it would appear 
> > > > we are past this.
> > > > 
> > > > Would you agree?
> > > > 
> > > > Regards
> > > > Nigel
> > > > 
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" 
<dzyan@> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Anand wrote:
> > > > > >Theosophical Society, under Annie Besant, and with it's 
pure
> > > > > Theosophy, was a huge success because that time 
Krishnamurti 
> > had 
> > > not
> > > > > distorted teachings in TS.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Besant brought merely exoteric distortions and second-hand 
> > > > Theosophy, while 
> > > > > Blavatsky brought first-hand Theosophy.
> > > > > Besant and Leadbeater taught that we are preparing for the 
> 5th 
> > > sub-
> > > > race, 
> > > > > while the 4th sub-race, which they believed are the German, 
> is 
> > > soon 
> > > > dying 
> > > > > out.
> > > > > 
> > > > > This could be the pseudo-theosophical rationale for Besant 
to 
> > > drum 
> > > > for war 
> > > > > against Germany in The Theosophist in the very smear words 
> the 
> > > > Masons used 
> > > > > in 1870 and repeated in 1889 in Paris, as published by Karl 
> > > Heise, 
> > > > co-worker 
> > > > > of Steiner.
> > > > > 
> > > > > But true Theosophy teaches that we are before the middle 
> point 
> > of 
> > > > the 4th 
> > > > > sub-race.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Could it be that Besant's and Leadbeater's wrong 
calculation 
> of 
> > > the 
> > > > races 
> > > > > and sub-races led them to racism against innocent Germans?
> > > > > Members with German origin or German sounding names were 
> > > persecuted 
> > > > by them 
> > > > > under their Antigermanism hype.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Individuals persecuted for the only reason that they belong 
> to 
> > a 
> > > > wrong race. 
> > > > > Is that Anand's "pure Theosophy"?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Frank
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
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