Theos-Talk Archives (February 2009 Message tt00092)

Christina
Not all monads are 5th Root Race - in fact we still have remnants of 3rd Root Race Lemurians in the Australian Aboriginal and some Chinese. The Aryan are mainly directly descended from the 4th Root Race Atlantean with some advancing to 5th Root Race.
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According to what I have Lemurian RR was 4.7 million years - Atlantean 6.3 million years - so if we can date Atlantean destruction most monads will be 4th Root Race taking into consideration the time required to advance through all sub races of a Root Race.
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Cass

--- On Thu, 5/2/09, christinaleestemaker <christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: christinaleestemaker <christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com>
Subject: Theos-World Re: 4th sub-race ( 5 th of today)
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Received: Thursday, 5 February, 2009, 12:25 AM






HPB on the fifth race, we are now to be read in
SD 
Vol. 1, Page 185 THE MAN, OR THE APE; WHICH THE FIRST?

Root-Race.* The cycle of metempsychosis for the human monad is 
closed, for we are in the Fourth Round and the Fifth Root-Race. The 
reader will have to bear in mind â at any rate one who has made 
himself acquainted with "Esoteric Buddhism" â that the Stanzas which 
follow in this Book and Book II speak of the evolution in our Fourth 
Round only. The latter is the cycle of the turning-point, after 
which, matter,

And so she write a lot of times about our 5 th rootrace of today and 
also about 6 and 7 th for futute, you can find by yourself
VgGr Christina

In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" <dzyan@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Nigel,
> 
> in the same way you read HPB you may also read the Holy Bible or 
the Lotus Sutra or the Bhagavad Gita.
> To me you have not quoted her exactly, you just have given the 
letter, not the spirit.
> It is only your mindset that you are under the illusion that HPB 
wrote what you think.
> 
> And you have not explained of which sub-race HPB in your quote 
speaks.
> 
> It seems you have no idea what esotericism is or what a blind is, 
alsthough HPB explained it several times and although HPB openly 
stated somewhere in the Secret Doctrine that all numbers and figures 
concerning cycles are not given openly.
> 
> Nowhere said any of HPB's Mahatmas that we are in the 5th sub-race 
as Besant did.
> The reason is that the Mahatmas grasp the teachings they teach.
> They know that -as HPB also wrote - that the middle point of the 
sub-race and their cataclysms come in 16,000 years from now.
> That alone is sufficent alone for the thinking part of the 
theosophists to know in which sub-race we are.
> 
> You seem not to consider that there is more knowledge as you have 
observed so far. That is Hinayana, while HPB served the Mahayana path.
> 
> Frank
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: nhcareyta 
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 1:10 AM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: 4th sub-race
> 
> 
> Dear Frank
> 
> You write, "But you are free to have your own interpretation 
> of HPB."
> 
> Thank you. But I am merely quoting exactly what she has written 
> and do not see any "blinds" that you suggest. Moreover the quotes 
> from the Mahatmas appear to verify her statements.
> 
> Regards
> Nigel 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" <dzyan@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Frank,
> > my English seems to bad that you understand me.
> > I do not need to find another quote of HPB, because your 
> interpretation of the quote is wrong.
> > Why should I therefore find another quote?
> > 
> > Obviously, you would like Besant this second quote also in a dead-
> letter sense.
> > 
> > Shall a repeat all arguments I already have written?
> > 
> > While you give little credence in the writings of de Purucker, it 
> seems you give more credence into your own interpretation of HPB.
> > 
> > Not that it could be not the case that you have more insight into 
> the esoteric philosophy than de Purucker, only so far you have 
> presented no proof or even hint except your dead-letter 
> interpretation.
> > 
> > Bearing in mind, that we in the meantime had two world-wars, in 
> which the question of the race played also a role, and that now 64 
of 
> the last physical war are gone, from a theosophical point of view 
it 
> seems strange, that the misunderstandings among theosophists 
continue 
> into the 21th century.
> > 
> > Your argument - in contrast to what I have written before - looks 
> fanatic and proud. But you are free to have your own interpretation 
> of HPB.
> > 
> > Frank
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: nhcareyta 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 2:15 PM
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: 4th sub-race
> > 
> > 
> > Dear Frank
> > 
> > Thank you for your reply.
> > 
> > For some reason you have introduced Dr Besant, Bishop 
> > Leadbeater and Dr Purucker's interpretations.
> > 
> > I place little credence in much of their writings, but that is 
> > largely irrelevant to the point I was offering.
> > 
> > Again, you write, "But true Theosophy teaches that we are 
> > before the middle point of the 4th sub-race."
> > 
> > Madame Blavatsky wrote as quoted, ""But we are in the 
> > 5th race, and we have already passed the turning or axial point 
> > of our "sub-race cycle."
> > 
> > There are 7 sub-races. 
> > 
> > The fourth is the middle or axial sub-race, being between the 
> > first and last 3.
> > 
> > From my understanding, a sub-race cycle is the period and 
> > processing of all 7 sub-races. 
> > 
> > Madame Blavatsky is saying we are passed the middle point 
> > of the sub-race cycle. 
> > 
> > This could indicate we are past the middle point of the fourth 
> > sub-race itself or, from my understanding, we are actually 
> > past the fourth sub-race altogether and are unfolding and 
> > evolving through the fifth of the total sub-race cycle. 
> > 
> > Whichever, it does not seem to indicate we are before any of 
> > these stages.
> > 
> > It appears we will have to respectfully disagree at this stage, 
> > unless you can find a quote from Madame Blavatsky which negates 
> > or casts further light on this perspective.
> > 
> > Thank you again.
> > 
> > Regards
> > Nigel
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" <dzyan@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Nigel,
> > > no, I will surely not agree as we speak here of two different 
> > things.
> > > 
> > > If you consider what HPB writes before and after your quotation 
> > about the calculation of the sub-races, you will be aware that 
HPB 
> > refers to our sub-race cycle within the subrace.
> > > So Besant knew nothing about this esoteric blind of HPB and 
> > believed in the dead-letter she found in the book.
> > > 
> > > Below I give one of many possible quotes from Gottfried de 
> Purucker 
> > about Besant's mistake from his "Studies". In 
> > his "Fundamentals, "Dialogues" and "Occult Glossary" other quotes 
> can 
> > be found, that Besant and Leadbeater made a miscalculation about 
> the 
> > races.
> > > 
> > > So considering that HPB used blinds - which is to be expected 
by 
> > the most occult doctrine of the races, the cardinal dogma of the 
> > Masters - how trustworthy are then the teachings of Besant and 
> > Leadbeater on the races? And how trustworthy are their teachings 
> > regarding other topics of which we may not have first-hand 
> > information of de Purucker or another messenger of the Masters?
> > > 
> > > Is this then the "true Theosophy" of which Anand speaks?
> > > Frank
> > > 
> > > http://www.theosoci ety.org/pasadena /soph/sopqa06. htm
> > > Sub-Races of the Fifth Root-Race
> > > I have been a reader of Theosophical literature for a number of 
> > years and have understood from the teachings that we are now in 
the 
> > fifth Sub-Race of the Fifth Root-Race. But I read in Dr. de 
> > Purucker's illuminating book, FUNDAMENTALS OF THE ESOTERIC 
> > PHILOSOPHY, that this is a mistake; that we have not even reached 
> the 
> > middle of the fourth Sub-Race; and that earlier teaching has been 
> an 
> > intentional blind on this point. 
> > > 
> > > The present condition of the world certainly suggests that we 
are 
> > not a whole sub-race beyond the "acme of materiality. " But if 
such 
> is 
> > the case, why was it necessary to withhold this teaching until 
> today? 
> > And why are we more ready to receive it now than fifty years ago? 
> Can 
> > anything further be said on this subject? 
> > > 
> > > The questioner, on the whole, has correctly understood my 
various 
> > references to the matter of the Races. It is, however, erroneous 
to 
> > suppose that the teaching concerning this matter has 
> been 'withheld' 
> > until today; and, consequently, the above statement suggesting 
that 
> > we are now more ready to receive the teachings than others were 
> fifty 
> > years ago is likewise a mistake. I would also like to point out 
> that 
> > the earlier teaching on this matter was not "an intentional 
blind"; 
> > but H. P. B.'s teachings regarding the Races as given in The 
Secret 
> > Doctrine, have not been in all respects properly understood. 
> > > 
> > > In Fundamentals of the Esoteric Philosophy, on page 239, I have 
> > treated of this matter at sufficient length, it seems to me, 
> although 
> > briefly; and I suggest that the questioner and others who may be 
> > interested in the facts, turn to H. P. B.'s The Secret Doctrine 
and 
> > especially to its Volume One, page 610, and ponder over the very 
> > clear and definite statements therein made. 
> > > 
> > > "The acme of materiality in each" Race is always the fourth 
stage 
> > or sub-race "or central point," e.g., the fourth Sub-Race of any 
> Root-
> > Race. Further, H. P. B. on this page of The Secret Doctrine says 
> very 
> > clearly that "we are in the mid-point of our Sub-Race of the 
Fifth 
> > Root-Race -- the acme of materiality in each -- therefore the 
> animal 
> > propensities, though more refined," etc. Now, these words, "the 
> acme 
> > of materiality in each" solve the problem instantly, because two 
> > things are here referred to: the Fifth Root-Race and its "acme of 
> > materiality" which is the fourth Sub-Race; and, again, "the mid-
> point 
> > of our Sub-Race. It should be clear enough to anybody that being 
at 
> > the point where the "acme of materiality" in each is found, this 
> > places us therefore at, or nearing the middle point of, the 
fourth 
> > Sub-Race of the Fifth Root-Race. However, as there are always 
> cycles 
> > within cycles, and smaller cycles again within these, even a 
fourth 
> > sub-race has its upward rises towards a relative intellectual 
> > development or a relative spiritual development, and also its 
> > descents thereafter. 
> > > 
> > > Since the discovery of America, we have been on the upward rise 
> of 
> > a small minor cycle within the fourth Sub-Race; and this accounts 
> for 
> > the great development in brain-mind intellectuality and for the 
> > flowering of material energies which the most myopic of modern 
> > individuals can see the signs of around us everywhere. 
> > > 
> > > To speak more accurately, we are at the present time actually 
> > passing through a small fifth subordinate race, forming part of a 
> > Family-Race, which in its turn is part of the fourth Sub-Race, 
> which 
> > is the lowest great sub-race of the Fifth Root-Race. 
> > > 
> > > Again, as every industrious student of the archaic Wisdom knows 
> who 
> > has pondered over the statements in H. P. B.'s The Secret 
Doctrine, 
> > every Root-Race, when its time comes, is cut in two in its middle 
> > part, i.e., at about the middle point of its fourth Sub-Race, as 
> > Atlantis was, and as Lemuria was. Such racial catastrophe 
obviously 
> > has not yet befallen us of the Fifth Root-Race; and the deduction 
> is 
> > of course immediate and obvious: we have not yet reached the 
middle 
> > point of the fourth Sub-Race of the Fifth Root-Race -- although 
we 
> > are not far from this middle point. 
> > > 
> > > H. P. B. in The Secret Doctrine furthermore shows that the 
karmic 
> > geologic destiny of Europe -- when the final closing of many 
racial 
> > accounts will take place -- requires some sixteen thousand or 
more 
> > years before that event, a geologic racial catastrophe, reaches 
its 
> > maximum. But meanwhile, "coming events cast their shadows 
before"; 
> > and very serious seismic, tidal, and other catastrophic events 
will 
> > happen to certain European countries between now and the sixteen 
> > thousand years period of grace that Europe still has. H. P. B. 
has 
> > alluded to these events on several occasions in her writings, as 
in 
> > The Theosophist in an article later republished in Five Years of 
> > Theosophy, and also in articles in her Lucifer, in which places 
she 
> > calls attention to tidal waves and disastrous earthquakes that 
are 
> > already occurring, and clearly pointing to what will come in the 
> > future. 
> > > 
> > > Were we now in the fifth Sub-Race, as some have mistakenly 
> > supposed, we should have passed the cutting in two of our Fifth 
> Root-
> > Race; but this last has not occurred. The conclusion is therefore 
> > obvious. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: nhcareyta 
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:40 AM
> > > Subject: Theos-World Re: 4th sub-race
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Dear Frank
> > > 
> > > You write, "But true Theosophy teaches that we are before the 
> > > middle point of the 4th sub-race."
> > > 
> > > However Madame Blavatsky writes, "But we are in the 5th race, 
> > > and we have already passed the turning or axial point of our 
> > > "sub-race cycle."
> > > Occult Or Exact Science?
> > > [The Theosophist, Vol. VII, No. 79, April, 1886, pp. 422-431]
> > > 
> > > As the fourth sub-race is the "axial point", it would appear 
> > > we are past this.
> > > 
> > > Would you agree?
> > > 
> > > Regards
> > > Nigel
> > > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" <dzyan@> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Anand wrote:
> > > > >Theosophical Society, under Annie Besant, and with it's pure
> > > > Theosophy, was a huge success because that time Krishnamurti 
> had 
> > not
> > > > distorted teachings in TS.
> > > > 
> > > > Besant brought merely exoteric distortions and second-hand 
> > > Theosophy, while 
> > > > Blavatsky brought first-hand Theosophy.
> > > > Besant and Leadbeater taught that we are preparing for the 
5th 
> > sub-
> > > race, 
> > > > while the 4th sub-race, which they believed are the German, 
is 
> > soon 
> > > dying 
> > > > out.
> > > > 
> > > > This could be the pseudo-theosophical rationale for Besant to 
> > drum 
> > > for war 
> > > > against Germany in The Theosophist in the very smear words 
the 
> > > Masons used 
> > > > in 1870 and repeated in 1889 in Paris, as published by Karl 
> > Heise, 
> > > co-worker 
> > > > of Steiner.
> > > > 
> > > > But true Theosophy teaches that we are before the middle 
point 
> of 
> > > the 4th 
> > > > sub-race.
> > > > 
> > > > Could it be that Besant's and Leadbeater's wrong calculation 
of 
> > the 
> > > races 
> > > > and sub-races led them to racism against innocent Germans?
> > > > Members with German origin or German sounding names were 
> > persecuted 
> > > by them 
> > > > under their Antigermanism hype.
> > > > 
> > > > Individuals persecuted for the only reason that they belong 
to 
> a 
> > > wrong race. 
> > > > Is that Anand's "pure Theosophy"?
> > > > 
> > > > Frank
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

 














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